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Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

seattletimes.com

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Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#281

Post by potato3732842 »

np_tedious wrote: post #271
snickerbockers wrote: post #267

So I definitely agree it's a positive development that these cameras are being taken down because they're absolutely orwellian, but I really don't understand why "the line" is being drawn at immigration enforcement? Were people really okay with this until the point where they found out that illegal immigrants can be tracked by the surveillance state too?

[flagged]

Which is bad because a lot of them will be right back to insisting on more cameras, more data collection and more jackboot the second he's gone.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#282

Post by spamizbad »

pton_xd wrote: post #12

What did they think would happen? Installing surveillance systems to monitor people is acceptable, as long as they're only used against the majority? I don't understand the logic here.

It's pretty simple: People will tolerate surveillance technology if it promises to promote order and justice. People imagine them being instrumental in convicting murders, rapists, etc. ICE raids have been shown to be (I'm being generous here) sloppy and chaotic and seemingly targeting towards working people to grind towards a government-mandated quota - not the "bad guys" that plague our streets. Few are interested in a massive surveillance network to clamp down on what are essentially civil infraction of otherwise law-abiding and productive members of the community.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#283

Post by voidhorse »

snickerbockers wrote: post #267

So I definitely agree it's a positive development that these cameras are being taken down because they're absolutely orwellian, but I really don't understand why "the line" is being drawn at immigration enforcement? Were people really okay with this until the point where they found out that illegal immigrants can be tracked by the surveillance state too?

This isn't the "people" waking up and not being okay with this, it is one governmental power (the state) realizing that its own power to manage its citizens (the residents of WA) and its sovereignty is being threatened by another power (the fed) in a new way. The system the state previously used to enforce its own power over its constituents is now helping the competing power to have more power over those constituents outside of cooperation with the state power, so they are removing it. There is no sudden awakening of citizen consciousness here. Many of the actions emerging around ICE stuff are about states trying to combat overreaching federal power.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#284

Post by parrellel »

snickerbockers wrote: post #267

So I definitely agree it's a positive development that these cameras are being taken down because they're absolutely orwellian, but I really don't understand why "the line" is being drawn at immigration enforcement? Were people really okay with this until the point where they found out that illegal immigrants can be tracked by the surveillance state too?

People were okay with it when they assumed, I think naively, that only guilty people had anything to hide.

Now that we've got someone willing to throw all rules and morals to the wayside in charge, they've understandably begun to reassess.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#285

Post by mulmen »

alexpotato wrote: post #201
mulmen wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think someone even tried automating the redactions then posting to YouTube. It’s an interesting case that pits privacy against transparency. I absolutely want the cops to wear bodycams and I’d prefer they can’t even turn them off. But they also need to protect the privacy of victims, suspects, and witnesses. So they can’t just live stream to the Internet either. How much is the redaction fee? How much would it cost…

As another data point/example: Florida is a "sunshine state" [0] when it comes to public records which is why it's legal: - to have mugshots and arrest records posted online - which in turn leads to "attractive felon" style websites where mugshots are rated. I'm generally for more privacy while at the same time getting why people push for transparency. Either way you get downstream and often unintended consequences.…

This is also the source of the Florida Man meme right? Florida's transparency makes it look like a state full of criminals.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#286

Post by segmondy »

adrr wrote: post #161
sleepybrett wrote: post #90

No they turned them off because it turns out those cameras are public records and all their citizens can make requests for ALL THAT DATA.

Couldn't they just not log the license plates and only look for license plates on the list like stolen cars, stolen plates, amber alert etc? Why do they a need a list of all cars that the camera saw?

They don't just log license, they log everything about the car, dents, location of dents, type of wheels, stickers, etc. If you swap a license plate they would be able to tell the car. One local case I read about, the culprits used their own car with a stolen plate. They were able to identify the car based on the car's "fingerprints" dents, style, color, antenna, scratches etc.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#287

Post by thrance »

snickerbockers wrote: post #267

So I definitely agree it's a positive development that these cameras are being taken down because they're absolutely orwellian, but I really don't understand why "the line" is being drawn at immigration enforcement? Were people really okay with this until the point where they found out that illegal immigrants can be tracked by the surveillance state too?

Masked ICE thugs have been abducting citizens, and refusing their victims their due process. Stop acting like you're still ignorant about that.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#288

Post by drdeca »

theultdev wrote: post #102
hobs wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're conflating illegal immigration with immigration. In no way is illegal immigration "good for America".

Hm, I’m not saying it is good for America, but it seems to me that there are plausible senses of “good for America” for which it is plausible that illegal immigration is “good for America” in those senses.

Now, I generally dislike laws being broken. If there’s a situation where breaking a law is the right thing to do, then typically that indicates some problem (perhaps with the law, perhaps with something else).

So, I would hope that if illegal immigration is or were acting as a good thing right now, that there is or would be a better long-term solution for whatever situation than “a long term pattern of illegal immigration”.

Oh, I somehow misinterpreted “In no way is” as “There is no way that”. Oops.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#289

Post by pseudalopex »

gmueckl wrote: post #157
estearum wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand the logic of "there are some crime problems we're willing to accept more intrusions to solve than other crime problems?" Seems like something virtually everyone believes, and all that changes is where they draw the line of balance between intrusion and safety.

The problem here is that the law and order politicians world wide pretty consistently follow a pattern that starts by demanding surveillance tools to fight very serious crimes and those crimes only. Once they get that, they eventually start another campaign to allow use of the tools that they now have access to for less serious crimes. After a few cycles of this, you get a massive erosion of citizen rights. This is c…

This new technology will improve existing procedures. How can you oppose it?

This new procedure will use existing technologies. How can you oppose it?

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#290

Post by thrance »

np_tedious wrote: post #271
snickerbockers wrote: post #267

So I definitely agree it's a positive development that these cameras are being taken down because they're absolutely orwellian, but I really don't understand why "the line" is being drawn at immigration enforcement? Were people really okay with this until the point where they found out that illegal immigrants can be tracked by the surveillance state too?

[flagged]

Wonder why people would take issue with the unqualified, armed, masked thugs abducting innocent people off the street and deporting them without recourse or due process. Must be all about Trump, surely.

The only thing defying logic here is the MAGA cult rationalizing away the brown shirts now patrolling the streets of America, they who are supposedly so attached to freedom.

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