Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 397 posts

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#281

Post by paulryanrogers »

pkulak wrote: post #275
paulryanrogers wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why the Democrats have allowed this is beyond me. Republicans control all three branches of government. What can Democrats do except filibuster and budgetary maneuvers like they're already doing? Democrats already tried (briefly) going along with the inhumane BBB and Republicans kept cutting and disregarding the law anyway.

So because the democrats have no power except to make things worse, that’s what they should do? They have publicly said that the only thing they are negotiating for is one more year of health care subsidies. That’s a noble goal, but the country voted, and they don’t want affordable healthcare. If the Democrats ever have power again, then they can make policy again as well.

> ...the country voted, and they don’t want affordable healthcare.

Can we say those voting for Trump in 2024 were saying they don't want affordable healthcare? There were many issues on the table and it wasn't a landslide.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#282

Post by ryandrake »

dolmen wrote: post #278
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, why doesn't the government have an emergency fund for use to cover essential personnel/food etc during shutdowns?

Who manages emergency funds? Also, there are higher emergencies than allowing planes to fly.

They don't need an "emergency fund". It's not like the government maintains this giant sack of money in the basement of Congress that they reach into to pay government employees. They are still buying and redeeming treasury bills and notes. They -could- pay government employees (see also: Congress is getting paid) but they won't because the strategy to grief normal people while they fight is deliberate.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#283

Post by ryandrake »

mcphage wrote: post #241
krisoft wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference here is that everyone needs air traffic control This is very much not true. People who don’t own or operate aircraft don’t need air traffic control. > and there's zero choices Probably what you are saying here is that air traffic control is a natural monopoly. You can’t have two (or more) paralel systems issuing clearances at the same time in the same airspace. That would be madness. But what I’m say…

> People who don’t own or operate aircraft don’t need air traffic control. Also people who ride on airplanes.

Also, people living under the paths of airplanes need ATC because they don't want planes colliding and crashing into their homes. It's a clear public service that benefits the public broadly. I personally wouldn't want to turn it over to profit-seeking, race-to-the-bottom private contractors.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#284

Post by ryandrake »

metalman wrote: post #78

at a certain point, rebooting ATC could become exceptionaly difficult, as the whole aviation comunity, flys. And no, you cant train new AT controllers, they learn on the job, and what a job it is! as part of our pilot training they took us into a controll tower, which is a radicaly modern, high tech, high security environment, and let us hang around, the senior hand started chatting with us, while directing air traff…

Also, there are strict medical (including mental health) and age requirements in order to become and remain an ATC. You need to be under 31 to apply and must retire at age 56.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#285

Post by ryandrake »

e40 wrote: post #6
montroser wrote: post #2

What is Trump's endgame here? Everyone stranded for Thanksgiving, poor kids going hungry, all for...what, exactly?

Their goal, since they 80's, has been to make government look incompetent so they can privatize it and use as a weapon against their adversaries (who they argue want "big government").

Don't forget "so they can make a lot of money off of it." One of the critical legs in the "privatization" stool is to make everything more expensive to line the pockets of people profiting off of what was once a government-provided service.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#286

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

thephyber wrote: post #167
slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

Maybe. But having 10%+ of all Americans panicking after missing a few meals is also enough to topple a country. There’s not a whole lot that can unify the different political factions of the US, but going hungry gets people focused on necessity and to deprioritize the shallow / vapid aspects of politics. Arguably it’s China’s governing body’s biggest single fear. I currently think this government shutdown is unlikely…

I can't see any rational politician letting this go beyond another two weeks. I can't imagine keeping people away from their families over Thanksgiving is gonna work out well for anyone.

But then, maybe they're not rational.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#287

Post by Tadpole9181 »

bsder wrote: post #244
pessimizer wrote: post #128

If the Democrats are smart, they'll keep the shutdown going until Trump folds, keep it going until the midterms if they have to. It's the first thing they're doing that people like, they blame Trump for all the misery. He's jumping in front of the bullet by trying to stop SNAP under a goofy theory that Democrats actually care if people go hungry. Many Republicans have this strange but deeply-held crazy belief that De…

> All rational people agree that Obamacare sucks. Um, no, we don't. Remember recission panels? Remember not being able to get insurance if you had sleep apnea (aka pre-existing condition)? I can go on and on about exactly how insurance sucked shit before the ACA. The ACA could be better, and it was supposed to be adjusted over time. The problem is that we've got an entire party in the US who sole solution to the prob…

Since when have Republicans or Libertarians ever cared about the truth on the ACA? They still call it Obamacare, for God's sake.

From the very beginning they talked of "Death Panels", that quite literally already existed in insurance companies. And on zero basis, the ACA has no such thing!

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#288

Post by barbazoo »

least wrote: post #235
barbazoo wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the filibuster thing and how it plays into this. I’m seeing the vote for the government budget or something being voted on over and over. If there is a certain majority required to pass something then it is implied that there are negotiations. If the opposition party was just expected to vote yes then why vote at all? That’s why I’m asking, has the content of what was voted on changed significantly…

> I don’t understand the filibuster thing and how it plays into this. Senators are allowed to debate bills. A motion to end debate and move to vote can't happen until debate ends. A senator does not generally have a time limit on the amount of time they can debate, so unless they yield the floor, the process can't move forward. Cloture is a process to force a closure of debate to force a vote (which has its own separ…

I really appreciate your thorough reply.

Complex procedural rules and people unable or unwilling to work with each other in the intended way?

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#289

Post by themafia »

throw0101a wrote: post #258
themafia wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no absolute need to consider aviation fees to be taxes and collect them through a federal agency. What if you collect too much? The fund is subject to appropriations. > financing their local ATC as they see fit We already use mileage based overflight fees: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/international_aviation/overf...

> What if you collect too much? You lower fees the next year.

Then if you collect too little? Where does the excess come from? Do you keep the fees high and pay that back next year? Do you account for inflation or charge points?

Is there some reason you _don't_ want this system to have slightly more funding than it "needs?"

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#290

Post by _DeadFred_ »

nandomrumber wrote: post #90
crooked-v wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, ATC also covers military flights in the US, which gives a pretty good national security reason to have central control over it... at least when a particular party isn't intentionally trying to destroy it along with various other government functions.

How do you determine which party is refusing to capitulate at any particular moment in time. Doesn’t it take two to have a disagreement?

Well since the Republicans closed shop and went home instead of staying and trying to figure out a working solution, while also having the majority and the presidency, in this case it's easy to determine.
Post reply on HN