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I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

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Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#281

Post by inferiorhuman »

krige wrote: post #269
mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And lo, there is verily even more information presented in the video than this thread has yet revealed. For what Alec says in the video is that this purge-the-cold-water advice is specific to North America, and he even explains the reasons why!

He does mention it has to do with voltage and heating systems. I think it's something he covered on his kettle vid.

He mentioned that it's not due to voltage but rather low current circuits. A 15 amp circuit translates to around 1,800 watts in the US and if you derate it to 80% of that like the NEC requires a continuous load you'd have around 1,440 watts available.

His argument is that appliance manufacturers are trying to simplify their lineup by making models that would work in homes without a dedicated circuit (15 or 20 amp). Although I can't think of a better argument that still doesn't quite sound right to me. The NEC has required dedicated circuits for dishwashers for quite a while now and IIRC that requirement has been for a 20 amp circuit for a few decades. Even though you typically only see 15 amp receptacles, kitchens have required 20 amp circuits for somewhere north of forty years.

I think a lot of his video is simply based on testing with crappy Whirlpool and AEG dishwashers. There's a reason why Bosch (and these days LG) dishwashers are pretty much universally recommended.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#282

Post by inferiorhuman »

tstrimple wrote: post #278
bombcar wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want a dishwasher and washing machine that I can load with gallons of soap once a month or whatever, and let it do the detail work for me. I know they exist in the commercial realm, but I'm not 100% certain the wife is ready for a Hobart machine in the kitchen ...

I was almost tempted into buying an all-in-one unit that washes and dries. Only a few brands are releasing these heat-pump based models currently and it doesn't seem quite ready for mainstream release. But the LG model I found did have the ability to preload it with detergent and run up to 60 cycles before filling again. I almost bought it just for that feature. But went with the older more reliable model instead. Ma…

Both the LG and GE heat pump all-in-one units come with auto detergent dispensers. For the life of me I can't imagine wanting one more thing to break, especially on an LG product as LG is notoriously poor with parts availability.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#283

Post by iamacyborg »

zamalek wrote: post #268

I inferred a trick from his original video. Dish soap and dishwasher detergent are not the same; the latter contains an enzyme that breaks food down. If you have something that is completely wrecked, fill it with piping hot water and put a dose of dishwasher detergent in it. Leave it overnight. I strongly doubt the stuff is good for your skin, so I've only done this a few times.

Depending on what thing you’re talking about, often the easiest way to clean various pans is to just fill them with water and bring them to a boil for a few minutes

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#284

Post by MarioMan »

emtel wrote: post #154
russdill wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like it would be trivial for the machine to pump water in, turn on the heating element, and wait until it reaches optimum temperature before beginning the cycle.

My understanding is that energy efficiency requirements prevent this. Dishwashers have a fixed energy budget they are allowed to expend, which may not be enough to heat cold tap water up to the optimal cleaning temp.

That’s pretty wild, since the energy needed to get it up to temp would still need to be expended on the water heater side. There are no real energy efficiency gains unless they can somehow engineer an effective cold water cleaning.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#285

Post by db48x »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #211
db48x wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch the video; it makes a huge difference even though the hot water input is not as hot as the water can get when the dishwasher runs its heating element. Also the size of the heating element is irrelevant. What matters is the power dissipated. Most dishwashers in the US will use only about 900 watts of power even when plugged into a circuit that supports 1500 watts. In the EU they often hit 3000 watts. Even when j…

Modern dishwashers, especially in Europe, are using heat pumps as well. They don’t really benefit from the extra voltage and watts anymore.

Sure, but most people don’t have a modern dishwasher. It’s an appliance that lasts 20 to 30 years ergo most people have old dishwashers that were manufactured decades ago.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#286

Post by Turskarama »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #281
krige wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does mention it has to do with voltage and heating systems. I think it's something he covered on his kettle vid.

He mentioned that it's not due to voltage but rather low current circuits. A 15 amp circuit translates to around 1,800 watts in the US and if you derate it to 80% of that like the NEC requires a continuous load you'd have around 1,440 watts available. His argument is that appliance manufacturers are trying to simplify their lineup by making models that would work in homes without a dedicated circuit (15 or 20 amp). A…

It's the same issue, if you have a higher voltage then you can get more power without increasing current.

For example in Australia a standard house circuit is 10 Amps, but because it's at 240V we can get 2400 Watts (realistically more like 2300) out of a _standard_ wall outlet that is in every room of your house.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#287

Post by inferiorhuman »

losvedir wrote: post #83
383toast wrote: post #2

summary: The creator argues that most dishwashers are designed to use a pre-wash dose and a main wash dose of detergent, a fundamental often ignored by single-dose pods, and presents independent ASTM testing confirming the new powder matches or exceeds the performance of a leading premium pod. The video also features a detailed demonstration using temperature logging and peanut butter to stress the importance of purg…

This has been his stance for a long time. He has a lot of dishwasher videos for some reason! One thing I can't get a good answer to is whether the "prewash" step is universally the case or not. I have a good Bosch dishwasher and there's no compartment for a bit of pre-wash detergent. I don't even know if my dishwasher cycle has a pre-wash step. I would assume the dishwasher manufacturer knows what's best. The owner's…

I have a previous generation Bosch 500 series dishwasher. For my use case I get the best results with the heavy cycle. However I found that adding loose detergent in there for the "prewash" resulted in soapy residue being left on the dishes if used in conjunction with the heavy cycle (but not with the normal and auto cycles).

Alec's dishwasher videos are based on some rather primitive dishwashers. For instance he talks about his test unit not flushing out the spray arms, but Bosch/Siemens filters the water going to the spray arms so it wouldn't recirculate dirty water anyways. Same deal with the prewash. Bosch uses a turbidity sensor to determine how many "prewash" cycles to run and when to reuse the water, something his test unit very clearly does not.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#288

Post by jillesvangurp »

Referring to yourself in a title twice strikes me as mildly narcissistic and otherwise it's obvious click bait. Doesn't put me in a mood to watch the video. But judging from just the title this person seems to have figured out a few obvious things that are probably well known and entirely unsurprising for people that know anything about the virtues of soda in household applications. That's not exactly a well kept secret.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#289

Post by inferiorhuman »

dylan604 wrote: post #73
masklinn wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> share one 20A residential circuit 15, dishwasher manufacturers can't assume the dishwasher is on a 20.

This plus the comment about sharing a circuit with an oven. If the oven is electric, even in the US it is 220v. If it is gas only, then it could be 120v as it only needs to run the igniter and other circuitry without running any heating elements.

Electric ovens in the US have required dedicated 40 or 50 amp circuits for decades per the NEC. Dishwashers, as well, have required dedicated circuits for a while but the 20 amp requirement is a more recent development (although it's probably been at least a couple decades).

Kitchens in general have required 20 amp general purpose circuits since at least the early 80s. However the NEC (but not the Canadian equivalent) allows for 15 amp duplex receptacles on 20 amp circuits so home builders looking to save a few pennies often use those. Besides, there are few if any, residential appliances out there that have NEMA 5-20 plugs. Then again hardwiring dishwashers was pretty common up until recently.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#290

Post by dustbunny »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #204
bombcar wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want a dishwasher and washing machine that I can load with gallons of soap once a month or whatever, and let it do the detail work for me. I know they exist in the commercial realm, but I'm not 100% certain the wife is ready for a Hobart machine in the kitchen ...

My Samsung bespoke combo washer dryer has that feature. It uses less detergent than we are used to so my wife uses pods, but I think this is better un general since the clothes come out clean even if they don’t smell like detergent. So not only do I not need to load detergent, I don’t need to transfer to the dryer. Still have to load sanitizer in unfortunately.

I heard the dryer in those is slow and breakable. Does it take forever to dry stuff?
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