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American solar farms

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Re: American solar farms

#281

Post by Nasrudith »

IAmBroom wrote: post #28
paulnpace wrote: post #8

My experience has been that people living next to newly constructed solar farms are unhappy about living next to a solar farm. It is also my experience that this is a fringe opinion because a very low percentage of people live next to solar farms.

Having farmers in the family, I can confirm they are unhappy about living next to anything other than what they grew up next to. Also, the rainfall. Some farmers go from morning to night never saying a word that isn't a complaint about the rainfall being wrong.

It is something I have noticed about the definition of 'eyesore' and it isn't just farmers. If it is something which is useful and new it is considered an eyesore. Like, say wind turbines. Yet older practical things which are no longer of use are considered pretty. Like say windmills. They also don't complain nearly as much about things which are 'established and ugly' like powerlines or coal power plants, the latter of which are replaced.

My best guess it is because it causes them existential dread by demarcating to them that there once was a time without the new feature. Now kids will be growing up always having there been the new feature. Thus highlighting their own inevitable death.

Re: American solar farms

#282

Post by slavik81 »

Spivak wrote: post #277
UltraSane wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People put solar panels right on their roofs. Noise is not a major issue for solar. It is hardly an issue at all.

I mean you're not wrong, if I measured the sound with a microphone I bet an air conditioner would be twice as loud but at the same time I'm sure that air conditioner would also be louder than the electrical buzzing you hear when you live near the big wires. But here's the thing, arguing over whether or not the sound is tolerable (or worse having some government agency full of people who will never live next to these…

I have an air conditioner and I have solar panels. The air conditioner is not merely twice as loud. My air conditioner is 70 dbA and the solar panels are certainly below 30 dbA because I have never heard them make noise. The difference is multiple orders of magnitude.

Re: American solar farms

#283

Post by dzhiurgis »

xp84 wrote: post #199
bee_rider wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, as others have pointed out Texas is helping with renewables. On the other hand, at the federal level Republican admins tend to cut renewable subsidies and that sort of thing. Red states have a lot of open space and ought to be ideologically in favor is loose regulations; it would be kind of nice if Republican national politicians would fully embrace cronyism and identify renewable subsidies as an easy way…

> renewable subsidies I think a lot of (honest) smart people would say that there are circumstances where even for those of us who love green energy ( raises hand ) subsidies aren't the most productive use of tax dollars. It can distort markets and can make the subsidized industry wasteful and uncompetitive, begetting reliance on the subsidy instead of pressuring them to compete. Solar and wind in 2025 aren't some fr…

My impression is that every industry is subsidize which totally distorts market (perhaps except for one who came up with subsidies in first place).

On flip side the orangutang cut green energy subsidies on grade A farmland, which most likely wasn't happening anyway.

Re: American solar farms

#284

Post by citrin_ru »

Nasrudith wrote: post #281
IAmBroom wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having farmers in the family, I can confirm they are unhappy about living next to anything other than what they grew up next to. Also, the rainfall. Some farmers go from morning to night never saying a word that isn't a complaint about the rainfall being wrong.

It is something I have noticed about the definition of 'eyesore' and it isn't just farmers. If it is something which is useful and new it is considered an eyesore. Like, say wind turbines. Yet older practical things which are no longer of use are considered pretty. Like say windmills. They also don't complain nearly as much about things which are 'established and ugly' like powerlines or coal power plants, the latter…

> They also don't complain nearly as much about things which are 'established and ugly' like powerlines or coal power plants

I like industrial architecture and some plants inspire awe but post-war coal plants are as ugly and boring as it gets. Older ones look much better in my eye and I’m glad that some buildings are preserved after the stations are shut down.

Re: American solar farms

#285

Post by thelastgallon »

adabyron wrote: post #230
t1234s wrote: post #222

Solar panels == shade. Any companies deploying solar in this manner (parking lots, pedestrian trails, bus benches, etc..)

This gets proposed a lot. The reason it isn't more frequent is due to the cost of the structure to hold the panels & risks of people running into them. It would be great if these costs could come down. Parking lots, animal pastures & other areas could be protected & create energy at the same time.

> risks of people running into them

Curious how people run into solar panels. I wonder how many ER visits say "I ran into a solar panel"

Re: American solar farms

#286

Post by thelastgallon »

Go vertical. Vertical panels take minimal space, can replace fences (everywhere!), nothing to clean (wind cleans it), heat dissipates and increases production, flattens the duck curve and produces energy during peak demand (early evenings), increases the window of time unlimited free energy is available. Vertical panels provide shade (and this can be calibrated for different types of plants)

Vertical panels may even be stacked on top of one another. Considering how big a fan of solar panels this administration is, perhaps the Big Beautiful Border Wall can be built with vertical solar panels.

Re: American solar farms

#287

Post by bell-cot »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #251
bell-cot wrote: post #117

Speculation: The biggest reason for solar farms often being unpopular with locals is that, socially , they feel like dystopian giga-scale machines. Serving some far-away, unfriendly power. Utterly disinterested in the welfare, or even lives, of the local populace. Vs. almost any other business (farm, mine, oil drilling, warehouse, whatever) would both hire far more local people, and interact far more with the local c…

How is this different from >50% of farm land in the US growing corn for ethanol or corn or soy for export?

If your next door neighbor worked on the production line at a tire factory, how much would it change your social relationship with him if half of those tires were being exported, or sold to manufacturers of ICE cars?

Or - maybe you're an introvert, or live in a place where it's normal to have no social relationships with your neighbors. If so, try talking to somebody who has lived in a small farming community. It is a very, very different world.

Re: American solar farms

#288

Post by defrost »

bell-cot wrote: post #287
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different from >50% of farm land in the US growing corn for ethanol or corn or soy for export?

If your next door neighbor worked on the production line at a tire factory, how much would it change your social relationship with him if half of those tires were being exported, or sold to manufacturers of ICE cars? Or - maybe you're an introvert, or live in a place where it's normal to have no social relationships with your neighbors. If so, try talking to somebody who has lived in a small farming community. It is…

This sounds very specific to your experience and viewpoint developed via whatever small farming community you have experience of.

I've had six decades around rural communities, mostly in Australia, often in far flung parts of the world, there are few here that feel solar farms are dystopian giga-scale machines, mostly they think of them as dual use for pasture and additional guaranteed farm income.

Raised panels make the moisture retention better, increase the nutritional value of the ground cover and makes for better wool - all positives.

Re: American solar farms

#289

Post by bell-cot »

defrost wrote: post #288
bell-cot wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your next door neighbor worked on the production line at a tire factory, how much would it change your social relationship with him if half of those tires were being exported, or sold to manufacturers of ICE cars? Or - maybe you're an introvert, or live in a place where it's normal to have no social relationships with your neighbors. If so, try talking to somebody who has lived in a small farming community. It is…

This sounds very specific to your experience and viewpoint developed via whatever small farming community you have experience of. I've had six decades around rural communities, mostly in Australia, often in far flung parts of the world, there are few here that feel solar farms are dystopian giga-scale machines, mostly they think of them as dual use for pasture and additional guaranteed farm income. Raised panels make…

Point. I was mostly speaking to the parts of America which are hostile to solar farms.

OTOH, it sounds like your experience is with solar/farming dual-use. Vs. America seems inclined to a "buy the land, kick off the farmers, put up the panels, and post the No Humans Allowed signs" monoculture model. Which can be all to easy to scale up & do, from a Wall Street point of view.

Re: American solar farms

#290

Post by defrost »

bell-cot wrote: post #289
defrost wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very specific to your experience and viewpoint developed via whatever small farming community you have experience of. I've had six decades around rural communities, mostly in Australia, often in far flung parts of the world, there are few here that feel solar farms are dystopian giga-scale machines, mostly they think of them as dual use for pasture and additional guaranteed farm income. Raised panels make…

Point. I was mostly speaking to the parts of America which are hostile to solar farms. OTOH, it sounds like your experience is with solar/farming dual-use. Vs. America seems inclined to a "buy the land, kick off the farmers, put up the panels, and post the No Humans Allowed signs" monoculture model. Which can be all to easy to scale up & do, from a Wall Street point of view.

As stated, a viewpoint unique to your experience in central North America and not one universal to farming communities.

Wall Street isn't exactly the brightest when it comes to optimal approaches.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2022-05-30/solar-farm-graz...

( FWiW the counter arguments raised in anticipation in that three plus year old article didn't come to fruition in the time since across many sites - we do pay attention to water tables here in Australia following disastrous effects of over clearing for 80 years that ended some 50 years past )

The largest current complaint hereabouts in the farming community is the looming onset of a mega garbage dump for the nearest city. It's promised to be well sealed and well maintained, but local people are upset by the intrusion of convoys of garbage from the city - more noise and traffic than a few thousand hectares of solar panels.

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