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Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

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Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#281

Post by array_key_first »

znort_ wrote: post #229
array_key_first wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do it to reduce complexity. The problem with JS heavy frontend is you now have TWO applications. The real application, on the backend, which makes all the decisions, and the frontend application. You have TWO states which are being mutated independently that you now have to sync.

reducing complexity is important but is hardly the fundamental reason to choose between server side or client side rendering or state management. that just depends on the nature of the problem and the context it has to be solved in. sometimes it doesn't matter, then you have a choice. you guys are furiously arguing (and not really listening) about this or that hammer being good enough to treat every problem as a nail…

I agree, but the kicker is that most websites can be server side rendered trivially. Most web "apps" are not applications. They are forms and pages.

The client side logic is, usually, just to make the developers happy because developers love complexity.

Obviously there are many exceptions. But not every application is exceptional. We all hate to admit we're working on simple or trivial things but... We are. Often.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#282

Post by replwoacause »

nchmy wrote: post #250
replwoacause wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad it will only be available as a Pro feature. I’m not against supporting hard work by any means but framing it as an alternative to free options set me up for a bit of disappointment. But I agree with everything else you said that this seems very impressive.

Sorry, I had no intention to frame it as being free. Fair point though. Do check it all out though - it's a breath of fresh air.

No worries. I really dig all of this and think D* is a great product. Looking forward to seeing what else comes out.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#283

Post by andersmurphy »

withinboredom wrote: post #280
andersmurphy wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try my demo [1] on 3G slow. It works fine. Turns out brotli compression does wonders. [1] https://checkboxes.andersmurphy.com

on real 3g, seems to load in about 5s. As good as hackernews imho

Yup for initial load. But the subsequent interactions which each require a network hop and send down the whole page are lightening fast.

Because once that connection is primed you are off to the races.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#284

Post by halfcat »

Terretta wrote: post #226
Baguette5242 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried Datastar and it was great, then I saw this kind of move and it turned me down immediately. I don't believe it is the right way to play. A Pro support would have been better. Plus the fact that the licensing prevent to use the Datastar Pro in any kind of open-source project. Very strange move.

So if Mozilla had offered to monetize by asking $299 to use the and tags that would turn you off the rest of the browser? Or do you think you could make text blink another way? Here's how you replace the URL without a page refresh: function processAjaxData(response, urlPath){ document.getElementById("content").innerHTML = response.html; document.title = response.pageTitle; window.history.pushState({"html":response.ht…

> So if Mozilla had offered to monetize by asking $299 to use the and tags that would turn you off the rest of the browser?

I hadn’t thought about it, but yes. I say this as someone who paid for Netscape Navigator.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#285

Post by hasanhaja »

bkmq wrote: post #269
hasanhaja wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. Datastar is a free open source framework that you can choose to use or not. It's weird to call them out as indecent and deceitful for not actively marketing features that they really don't think you need. Even when you think you need it, they've actively encouraged people to analyze their problems to identify if it's a real need or a gap in hypermedia fundamentals knowledge. Also, the top nav has a Pro…

”Ready for liftoff?” should have a go-pro button. That’s all that is needed.

Why have a call-to-action to something they don't want you to do?

It's only there for Pro users and people who want to support the project [1] and not normal use.

[1] https://data-star.dev/essays/greedy_developer

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#286

Post by halfcat »

hasanhaja wrote: post #211
edu wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it feels scammy. Like you, I've no problem paying for software if it seems worth it. I've payed a few times for Highcharts (different companies) and I did gladly and without hesitation, it also feels that they're being honest about their business model.

This feels incredibly unfair and harsh and is completely unfounded. What's the scam here?

Not a scam. It just feels the same as a scam feels.

One time I had a couch delivered. Two guys show up to set it up. One guy says he needs a tool from the truck and walks off, and the other guy starts talking to our dog, and tells us how he used to train pit bulls, and starts doing some weird hand motions and yelling commands to our dog like he’s casting a spell or something.

I think the guy was probably just not all there mentally, like too much former drug use or something. But it was one of those surreal moments where red flags were going off in my head. I went to find the other guy just to make sure he wasn’t robbing us out the back. Because that’s what it felt like: misdirection, social engineering, a performance.

In hindsight, I don’t think there was anything suspicious going on. But the alarm bells in my head were still completely real.

When we see this “everything is an plugin” but “plugin details are internal-only” and “plugin detail is coming” and “1.0 is released” and “but we will have 40 more release candidates before 1.0 final” and “you could support us with pro” and “you dont need pro” and “we don’t recommend pro” and “you can build anything in pro yourself anyway” and “you shouldn’t use this pro feature anyway and should use CSS instead”, and then when people ask a question about any of this inconsistency, we get juvenile responses like “don’t use it then”, “don’t buy it then”, “fork it then”, “my time isn’t free”, and so on. Even though there is no scam, it’s surreal. Like, “is this really happening?” It sets off the same red flags in people’s minds, even when there is no scam.

Datastar seems very cool as a tool, and the developers seem very technically competent. The problems they face don’t seem to be technical problems.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#287

Post by miroljub »

dang wrote: post #201
miroljub wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Can you please not post like this here? It's against the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You're right. Sorry, can't delete the comment now.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#288

Post by overfeed »

barapa wrote: post #278
contrast wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copy-to-clipboard is a support heavy feature? Do you really think Datastar is of such ridiculously bad quality that even simple features require a lot of support to get working?

I implemented copy to clipboard in datastar in maybe 1 minutes with an AI agent. What exactly are you providing to the world for free?

Pointed critiques of barely-concealed misdirection.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#289

Post by [deleted] »

hasanhaja wrote: post #285
bkmq wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”Ready for liftoff?” should have a go-pro button. That’s all that is needed.

Why have a call-to-action to something they don't want you to do? It's only there for Pro users and people who want to support the project [1] and not normal use. [1] https://data-star.dev/essays/greedy_developer

[deleted]

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#290

Post by lucyjojo »

nchmy wrote: post #66
imiric wrote: post #58

Datastar is one of the few projects in the web ecosystem in years that feels like a paradigm shift for the better. The author (Delaney Gillilan) has put a lot of thought into how modern web development should be done from first principles, while leveraging core web technologies like SSE, and eschewing complexity as much as possible. His proposed GoNaDs stack[1] enables some truly impressive web applications. I highly…

I was just commenting to someone yesterday how it's a testament to how refined this is that he's been working hard for over 2 years to produce such a small amount of code. I can only imagine how many variations he's gone through in order to get to what we see today - a refined, simple, easy, powerful way to do SSR-driven declarative interactivity, etc And if that isn't enough, he's also on the cusp on releasing a web…

299usd is simply unaffordable for a lot of people though.
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