Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

BYD builds fastest car

autotrader.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 312 posts

Re: BYD builds fastest car

#281

Post by peterashford »

seec wrote: post #279
gamblor956 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrasting opinion: BYD made electric busses for US transit agencies. They were the worst buses that I have ever ridden. Today, no U.S. transit agency still uses BYD busses, because none of them managed a service live longer than about a year. BYD vehicles seem really nice for the first few hours, until you start discovering all the corners they cut to make their price point.

That's my experience as well with Chinese designed products. They always look OK but when you really use them is when it becomes obvious why they are cheaper. In the end I doubt the lower cost of labor is that meaningful considering the level of automation. China has been successfully stealing industries by selling lies...

China's a very big place. You can't sum up the quality of "Chinese designed products" based on your experience.

Re: BYD builds fastest car

#282

Post by refurb »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #228
refurb wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why this is downvoted. The Chinese government has been quite transparent in terms of globally dominating several industries including EV through heavy government support. It would make no sense to destroy your own industry because it can’t compete with a heavily subsidized foreign industry.

If it is such a successful strategy, why doesn't everybody do it?

It's often not a successful strategy.

If your product sells like made at a subsidized price, but not at the unsubsidized price, it's not a real business.

Re: BYD builds fastest car

#283

Post by aurareturn »

DevKoala wrote: post #256
aurareturn wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the leading indicators of not being able to do the "hard" thing anymore is that Apple gave up on building an EV after spending a decade and billions in R&D. Meanwhile, Huawei and Xiaomi were both able to produce good EVs. Xiaomi in particular is doing what Apple wanted to do which is to integrate and control their ecosystem from phone to car. Xiaomi is literally trying to make everything from phones, cars, ele…

Not at all why Apple gave up on the EV, it was profitability. They even gave up on building AI cloud infra because it was cheaper to rent. Finance can veto Tim Cook there.

Part of doing the hard thing is to become profitable.

Re: BYD builds fastest car

#284

Post by fragmede »

zevon wrote: post #171
contrarian1234 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War with China.. ya'll are nuts. The American zeitgeist is completely poisoned and insane. Listening to this stuff from the outside is kind of horrifying. War with a nuclear armed country ends with a nuclear winter for the whole planet. There is no preparing for war with China unless you want everyone dead (which I'm starting to suspect a lot of people are okay with) This seems so anachronistic.... When was the last…

Well, the last war where tanks and other old weapons were important is going on in Ukraine, for example. And I'm pretty sure you could build quite a few death machine components with what's available in Tesla factories as well (certainly not a full tank though, but you could probably not do that in an ICE car factory either). FWIW, I agree with your general sentiment, though. Also, I'm pretty sure that the car indust…

> certainly not a full tank though

I wonder how much you couldn't though. Obviously you'd need to retool the whole thing, and the cannon is a bit more complicated than simply a metal cylinder, but just how much more complicated? The reloading system is probably the most complex after of the jet turbine that powers those things.

My other question is, with gigacasting, how much better could a Tesla factory build an M1 Abrams compared to a traditional automakers?

Re: BYD builds fastest car

#285

Post by fragmede »

slaw wrote: post #220
mattclarkdotnet wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long driving distances in many areas, plus high electricity costs and poor charging infrastructure. Plug in hybrids sell like hot cakes though!

Plug in hybrids are only 14.87% https://www.aaa.asn.au/research-data/electric-vehicle/

That's a very slick site! It's kinda confusing. I think PHEV is orange is 3.79% of new vehicles though.

Re: BYD builds fastest car

#286

Post by fomine3 »

xnx wrote: post #258
triceratops wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression was Apple gave up on building EVs because they wouldn't be as profitable as phones and tablets.

It's still hard for me to grasp that companies will turn down hugely profitable new ventures because they aren't as profitable their current products.

Current market situation shows it's unlikely profitable, rather than hugely profitable

Re: BYD builds fastest car

#287

Post by spookie »

ricardobeat wrote: post #260
spookie wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are looking just at EVs. Or some other non road legal list. ICEs have more above it. https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife

That was from the official Nurburgring page, includes prototype cars. Your list seems to be missing most of those. The slowest from the EV list above is 6:48 for the Ford Supervan.

Ford Supervan is a promotional vehicle. I just wanted to focus on road legal cars.

But yes, the link I posted is lacking lots of data. Apologies.

Re: BYD builds fastest car

#288

Post by slaw »

fragmede wrote: post #285
slaw wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plug in hybrids are only 14.87% https://www.aaa.asn.au/research-data/electric-vehicle/

That's a very slick site! It's kinda confusing. I think PHEV is orange is 3.79% of new vehicles though.

You are right. PHEV is only 3.79%.

Re: BYD builds fastest car

#289

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

tooltalk wrote: post #278
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, I'm giving you a chronological high level view of China's illegal practices past 15 years The Chinese automobile industry in 2011 is hardly relevant to the EV industry in China today. The EV industry was not built by technology transfer requirements. > This was never allowed It was not only allowed, but actually viewed as a legitimate way for underdeveloped economies to develop. > Sure, Biden's IRA passed in…

> The Chinese automobile industry in 2011 is hardly relevant to the EV industry in China today. The EV industry was not built by technology transfer requirements. of course they are relevant and are built on tech transfer. > It was not only allowed, but actually viewed as a legitimate way for underdeveloped economies to develop. Again, this was illegal then and China was taken to the WTO in 2018 (WT/DS549 China — Cer…

> of course they are relevant and are built on tech transfer.

The small amount of technology transfer that happened in 2011 for internal combustion engines is not relevant to the EV industry in 2025. It wasn't even enough back then to make China competitive in internal combustion engines.

> Again, this was illegal then and China was taken to the WTO in 2018

No, technology transfer is not blanket banned by the WTO. It's actually encouraged for developing countries.

> Again, see the WTO case WT/DS549 China — Certain Measures on the Transfer of Technology

I don't think the WTO has ruled on that complaint.

> Sure, which EV or batteries before 2022?

The US faced virtually no competition for EV vehicles from China before 2022. The protectionist measures came up as soon as the competition appeared.

> Again, "ACTIVE" patents. Patents last just 20 years

You're really going to claim that China does not lead in current-day research? You're reaching back to decades ago, when that wasn't the case, to dismiss the massive Chinese R&D on batteries today.

> China's "local price" or "cost of manufacture" is not considered a "normal value" as their entire supply-chain is distorted by gov't subsidies.

Government subsidies are fairly small, and are paid to the consumer (not the producer), so they don't affect the cost of exported goods. Chinese companies are selling EVs in Europe at far, far higher prices than in China.

As I said, some EU countries are afraid of legitimate competition in EVs, because their own EV industry is hopelessly backwards. They're raising protectionist barriers, and coming up with a fig leaf to justify it.

Re: BYD builds fastest car

#290

Post by zevon »

fragmede wrote: post #284
zevon wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the last war where tanks and other old weapons were important is going on in Ukraine, for example. And I'm pretty sure you could build quite a few death machine components with what's available in Tesla factories as well (certainly not a full tank though, but you could probably not do that in an ICE car factory either). FWIW, I agree with your general sentiment, though. Also, I'm pretty sure that the car indust…

> certainly not a full tank though I wonder how much you couldn't though. Obviously you'd need to retool the whole thing, and the cannon is a bit more complicated than simply a metal cylinder, but just how much more complicated? The reloading system is probably the most complex after of the jet turbine that powers those things. My other question is, with gigacasting, how much better could a Tesla factory build an M1…

I'm not as current as I used to be with my military trivia (I blame getting older and getting to know more refugees, veterans and families who lost people in wars) but I'll have a go:

A tank weighs like 60 tons or so. The engine and transmission alone are heavier and bulkier than whole cars, so basically none of the infrastructure you have available in many car factories is dimensioned correctly. Modern armor is composite and includes stuff like ceramic components which you would not have the machines, processes and knowledge for. "Gigacasting" sounds impressive but it's "just" aluminium injection molding that can do relatively big and integrated parts and you can't just fill in some steel-composite armor material mix in the hopper and have a fully formed Abrams fall out the other end of the machine. Things like barrels are forged (I think), which you again would not have the right infrastructure for. And so on and so forth.

My guess would be: It would be more sensible to apply division of labor and - for example - have many of the car factories spit out CNC and cast parts that fit into their usual production envelope and are then integrated into other/bigger systems at your friendly neighborhood US armory (Krauss-Maffei or wherever, more likely), specalized stuff like aircraft parts from their Gigapresses, have them do electrical work for other systems, produce lighter (support-)vehicles, use their skills and infrastructure in quick mass production for things you really need a lot of (shells, basic supplies for your war-torn population's needs, and so on), have their prototyping labs work on more cutting-edge/improvised stuff like the Drones we see in Ukraine and Russia. I'm sure there are plenty more good (terrible) ideas to be had.

Post reply on HN