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Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

riksbank.se

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Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#281

Post by bjornsing »

daneel_w wrote: post #50
Etheryte wrote: post #5

Some context might be useful here. I spent some time living Sweden not too long ago and Swedes practically don't use cash. It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal, to the point that most don't have any at all. Digital payments are very convenient and deeply integrated, so long as you have a local ID which allows you use the local payment system Swish etc. This worked nice…

> "It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal ..." Are you sure this isn't impression you've gotten from isolated reactions involving a small number of individuals, perhaps just a single individual? I can't relate to the sentiment at all, having lived here for just over three decades and experiencing the popularity shift from cash to debit card. I can, in fact, not recall a…

Swedish banks (even the Riksbank linked above) regularly refuse to turn cash into digital money unless you can ”prove” where you got it from. It’s not sufficient to say (with immense credibility) that you worked hard all your life and saved it. Entire inheritances are regularly wiped out due to this, when high denomination bills are obsoleted by the Riksbank. So I’d say it’s not only a common sentiment but also government policy.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#282

Post by inkyoto »

Reason077 wrote: post #251
blurrybird wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I am Australian and we have a similar adoption rate of cashless payments. If a merchant tries to promote cash options I immediately think they’re doing it for tax evasion reasons - not because of the touted reason that “card payments cost more to process” (they don’t once you factor in the cost of handling cash).

> "FWIW I am Australian and we have a similar adoption rate of cashless payments. If a merchant tries to promote cash options I immediately think they’re doing it for tax evasion reasons" I don't know about Australia, but in New Zealand many small retailers and restaurants add a card payment surcharge (typically 1.5%-2.5%) automatically when you pay by card. So you are somewhat penalised for the convenience of using…

1.5%-2.5% card surcharges (both, debit and credit) are a commonplace in Australia as well.

Visa and Mastercard have successfully lobbied and conspired with local banks in both countries to bury EFTPOS, which were national debit card payment systems with a flat transaction fee ranging between 10 and 50 cents per transaction (depending on the bank).

A while back, Visa/MC realised that debit card transactions, being on the rise, were a highly lucrative market to tap into that they had been missing out on, so they set out on a war of attrition and conspired with the local big banks to phase out EFTPOS cards in favour of Visa/MC debit cards, where the cost of transaction was to be passed on to the card user. Tiered debit cards quickly followed (Platinum, etc.), that attracted higher fee percentages for Visa/MC – payment network commission fees are published on the respective payment network websites. Other than consumers, all parties involved (big banks, payment networks) became moist with excitement at getting a huge slice of the card transactions pie.

But there is the light at the end of the tunnel (other than the light of the oncoming train) – the RBA has moved to ban all card surcharges from July 2026.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#283

Post by wbl »

jhbadger wrote: post #208
tdeck wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the same thing in the US about small businesses that only take cash, but it's still pretty normal to use cash in the US.

People forget that the credit card companies charge businesses to process transactions. Some stores/restaurants even give discounts for paying in cash because of this.

It's the tax evasion. Nobody ever pilfered an interchange account.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#284

Post by bongodongobob »

derefr wrote: post #243
daneel_w wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to differentiate common purchases from "large" purchases in this discussion. I'm certain you don't think there's something shady going on, or tax evasion happening, if someone uses cash in the grocery store or at Pressbyrån, or to pay for some little gadget or whatever at Kjell&Co. This is what people think of when someone "uses cash". Not hauling tens of thousands to buy a used car or to settle the bill for…

I think they're talking about when merchants insist that you give them cash ("cash only"), not when buyers insist on giving cash. The usual assumption is that if e.g. a street-food cart is cash-only, it's not because they can't accept cards (it's rather trivial nowadays) but rather that 1. they don't want to pay the interchange fees, and more importantly, 2. they want to be able to cook their books when reporting rev…

Huh, interesting cultural difference. I couldn't give a flying fuck whether or not merchants I buy things from do their taxes correctly.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#285

Post by noduerme »

daneel_w wrote: post #161
renhanxue wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Swedish and if someone insists on doing a transaction using cash when Swish or card is available, I'd immediately start to wonder if it's for some kind of more or less shady reason, probably tax evasion at the very least.

You have to differentiate common purchases from "large" purchases in this discussion. I'm certain you don't think there's something shady going on, or tax evasion happening, if someone uses cash in the grocery store or at Pressbyrån, or to pay for some little gadget or whatever at Kjell&Co. This is what people think of when someone "uses cash". Not hauling tens of thousands to buy a used car or to settle the bill for…

When you say "buying a used car"... do you mean from a dealership, or from a private party? In America, I almost can't imagine buying a used car from an individual without paying them in cash. Indeed, it's one of the few situations where a large amount of cash is almost always required. It's a pain to go to the bank and get that cash. However, this is not because of tax evasion or something ... it's to avoid any sort of dispute or reversal once the sale is final. I would take Bitcoin for a car, or a check I could cash before signing over the vehicle, but I'd never take paypal or some other method where the buyer could contest the charges.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#286

Post by StanislavPetrov »

Steve0 wrote: post #86
mrtksn wrote: post #9

It's not about paying by cash but paying by card offline. How is this going to be implemented I wonder. On planes they often accept credit cards even when there's no internet. I assume this is a trust in-credit-based system because they don't accept debit cards, i.e. if you are worth being trusted with a card you can have your sandwich now and we will take care of the bank processing once we are on the ground. So may…

I have grown up seeing my parents write physical paper cheques. It's basic life goods and everything is still signed for, tracked and registered. Besides, banks love to collect interest.

To this very day I have several (older) relatives that use paper checks sent via snail mail to pay all their bills.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#287

Post by noduerme »

jayknight wrote: post #232
mercanlIl wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME (in Canada), the cash discount is surprisingly close to 15%, which is approximately the sales tax in most provinces.

Here in the deep (American) South, small businesses give discounts for cash because those global elites are trying to take away our cash and want to track us or whatever. To that mindset, cash is a way to resist a theoretical oppression.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, businesses give discounts for cash just because it saves them money. In Portland, we still have a fair number of bars that are cash only. And yeah, liberals here also consider it an invasion of privacy to have to use a card, but they couch it in terms of it being unfair to people without credit or bank accounts (which, tbh, is also a fair argument).

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#288

Post by bowsamic »

rounce wrote: post #114
dijit wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from the UK where not accepting cash is only ok in hipster areas of London (or, was at the time). When I joined my gamedev studio I had colleagues asking me why I had cash, and many of them didn’t even recognise what it looked like (there was a switchover of the notes a year or two prior). There was an insinuation that I would use it for drugs. So, I suspect that the parent is right here.

Sounds like they were pulling your leg.

I’m British and definitely not. I only saw the new notes because I went out of my way to find them

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#289

Post by noduerme »

101008 wrote: post #274
mercanlIl wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME (in Canada), the cash discount is surprisingly close to 15%, which is approximately the sales tax in most provinces.

Same here in Argentina

It's been 10 years since I lived in Argentina, but at that point having a credit card (not a debit card) was still reserved mostly for the folks in Barrio Norte. Has that changed now, or is it still mostly debit?
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