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Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

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Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That person would need, besides basic computer fluency for the timestamps, knowledge of Japanese and English. Not unheard of, but probably harder than hiring for a call center, and more need to prevent high rotation due to difficulty in finding replacements. Edit: not that I disagree with your general idea, just pointing out potential issues.

Wouldn't it be easier to just hire someone in Japan who knows English? Im sure they could find someone willing to work remotely.

Someone who knows English natively and Japanese sufficiently is necessary for producing quality subtitles; it's arguable that potentially having slightly less accurate subtitles (i.e. missing nuance) is better than having slightly less fluent English (i.e. not communicating in a natural-sounding manner).

It's not just about translation, after all, but localization. While you can (or kind of have to) assume some level of familiarity with Japanese life/culture for someone watching anime, it's easier for a native English speaker/someone who grew up in North America to notice cultural disconnects and figure them out.

An example I once heard: a book in Italian might say the character "ordered a coffee" and then "picked up the coffee, drank it, and walked out of the cafe". An Italian without as much consideration of American culture might translate that directly, but someone who understands localization would know that Italian character ordered what we would call an espresso, and know to change the text to be specific; otherwise, it sounds as though the person is guzzling an entire mug of black coffee on the spot, which would likely come across as psychotic and unnerving compared to taking a single shot of espresso.

Likewise, an Italian reader of an American novel might be unable to comprehend how or why an American character could spend 20 minutes nursing a cup of coffee, because they might be picturing a 1-2 oz espresso rather than a drip coffee.

So yeah, that's the big part of why it can't just be someone who knows English to some sufficient degree - because without fluency in spoken and written English, familiarity with how things would be said in English, and cultural differences between Japan and North America, you're going to end up with all kinds of dissonance.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#282
Why is this getting pushed up so fiercely? It seems all of the issues are for dubs and their closed captions. CC users are a very minor target group. Deaf can just use proper subs.

I have seen no issues in regular subs, and they look like they always have looked.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully you're looking at the wrong wing of the (old?) industry. Radio plays have never been a substantial revenue source, they have a lot more in common with streaming in that way, and in fact, many labels would use paid radio placement basically as a form of advertising. The tradeoff being, for the consumer, that the radio didn't play whatever they wanted; it played what was scheduled, with an occasional reque…

We really need some sort of vaguely apples-to-apples comparison. Looking only at CDs ca. 2005, which sold at about $15 each, an album that went platinum (1 million sales) would gross $15 million in retail, probably $10 million in wholesale, leaving about $1-3 million for the artist depending on contract terms. Estimates seem to put Spotify compensation at $3000 paid to the artist per million plays. So, you'd need som…

> Looking only at CDs ca. 2005, which sold at about $15 each, an album that went platinum (1 million sales) would gross $15 million in retail, probably $10 million in wholesale, leaving about $1-3 million for the artist depending on contract terms. Estimates seem to put Spotify compensation at $3000 paid to the artist per million plays. So, you'd need somewhere between 333 million and 1 billion plays to get comparable revenue to a platinum album.

Solid comparison, and illustrates the issue pretty well I feel.

> "Blinding Lights" by The Weeknd is currently the most-streamed song on Spotify at 5 billion plays [1]. That's roughly equivalent to a 5-15x platinum album from a single song and streaming platform alone; the record for most platinum album seems to be 34x platinum for Michael Jackson's Thriller [2], which had 7 songs that all were hits to some degree or another. Michael Jackson did a lot besides just record the songs; he also put out elaborate music videos and went on showy tours. All told, there are more than 100 songs with more than 1 billion plays on Spotify (in fact, the 100th is still above 2.4 billion plays).

So then let's bear that out. I don't have the data on the Thriller album for for the sake of argument, we'll rely on a quick google which says it was about $8 in 1982. I'll use the same split you did (33% off for wholesale, about 30% of which went to the artist) so if we run all that down, with US sales being 35 million units. So $55.44 million went to Michael, if we assume all of that is true and correct, which adjusted for inflation would be about 184 million dollars.

We'll compare that to the Weeknd's streams for Blinding Lights. We'll put him on the high end of receiving a half a penny per play, that works out to about 30 million dollars, for as you point out, the highest streamed song on the platform.

It's still not quite a 1:1, unfortunately, but: Michael Jackson with 7 hit songs of varying popularity was able to shift 35 million albums for a personal profit of 184 million in 2025 dollars, versus the Weeknd, who with the most popular song on Spotify, made $30 million.

And it's worth pointing out here, these are both superstar heavy hitters. The story gets a lot worse for any artist not in that category.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they take the timings from the closed captions of the original Japanese broadcast?

Two issues: - Japanese has very different word order and word lengths, and furthermore some constructions that are short and natural in Japanese have no universally good English parallel. (Vice versa as well, of course, but that’s not really a problem here.) To give a sense of the alienness at play here, Japanese is essentially postfix throughout, that is the most literal counterpart of “the car [that you saw yesterd…

> furthermore some constructions that are short and natural in Japanese have no universally good English parallel

One of my favourite things that clearly makes sense and sounds natural in Japanese but obviously doesn't translate well to English is "that person".

Every now and then you'll see some line of dialogue in an anime where someone says "Oh no, if this mark is showing up then we could see the return of _that person_." - which appears to be a way to refer to someone in the third person who the speaker knows but the listener doesn't - a linguistic "he who shall not be named", or "at least he who I'm not naming at this specific moment".

Discussion here, it seems: https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/llpqxt/is_that_perso...

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nintendo, Studio Ghibli, Cartoon Saloon. I’m sure there are many others in creative industries since you have to delight customers at least some of the time there. A large part of the reason Nvidia is a big deal is that they were willing to make the best drivers, that they just cared more about making a quality product. Lots of companies well exceed minimum quality necessary to keep customers from switching.

Nintendo is changing. Switch 2 is outdated over-priced hardware with super expensive games. Not to mention always being extremely hostile to fans and draconically enforcing their copyright. With their recent software patent trolling they are on their way to become the Japanese Oracle. Nvidia has garnered a lot of hate from the gaming community. Completely dishonest marketing, purposefully gimped hardware that barely…

> Switch 2 is outdated over-priced hardware

Per most reviewers (e.g. Digital Foundry), the Switch 2 is expensive but not over-priced for what you get (unless what you get is motion sickness from the overdriven LCD display).

There's a stark difference between "expensive" and "overpriced". A lot of people have said over the years that Apple's laptops were "overpriced", when what they really meant was that they could get something good enough for their needs for lower prices. Lots of people still bought them because it was worth it to them.

Likewise, the Switch 2 is expensive, and it is not worth it to everyone, but for a lot of people it's not "overpriced"; I would point to the Switch 2's sales numbers as the fastest selling console in history to indicate that most people don't seem to feel the same way.

> with super expensive games.

Correction: every other gaming platform has super cheap games. If game prices had kept up with inflation since I was a kid playing on the NES, we'd be paying well over $100-120 for games these days. They're definitely more expensive than other games, but (as one example) if I play Mario Kart World half as much as I played Mario Kart 8 Deluxe then I'm getting better value for my money than almost any other entertainment I've ever paid for.

Again, not worth it to everyone, but not unreasonable also. It sucks, but still.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this a lot, and it is a mild pet peeve of mine as well. Along the same lines, since I’m using Gundam as an example in this thread, I’ll point to a technology in the franchise called “psycommu” (pronounced in dubs as psy-com-moo) which is clearly transliterated from how it’s spelled in the original script without taking a second look at it. I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t have just localized it to “psy-com,” B…

Somewhat related is the situation with Shingeki no Kyojin / Attack on Titan. "Attack on Titan" was the manga author's chosen English title, except the story does not take place on the moon of Titan but is instead about giants attacking a human settlement. The Japanese title could be interpreted as "Attack of Titans" so everyone assumed "Attack on Titan" was just Engrish for that, and why CommieSubs' fan translation f…

Most fans I saw called it by the Japanese title, Shingeki no Kyojin. You could almost tell whether someone watched the official licensed translation or not, based on what they called the series.

Actually, another quirk is the German lyric in the first season's opening theme. Crunchyroll doesn't usually translate opening or ending lyrics, but translating the lyrics was standard practice in the fansub era, so the. However, they misheard the lyric as "Sie sind das Essen und wir sind die Jäger" - "You are the food and we are the hunters" - as if the line is spoken by the Titans (perhaps the English-speaking audience is primed to the Germans being the bad guys in movies). The actual lyric was revealed in official Japanese sources as spoken from the perspective of the humans: "Seid ihr das Essen? Nein, wir sind die Jäger!" - "Are we the food? No, we are the hunters!" However, the incorrect lyric persists among fans because the second opening theme superceded the first before the error was widely noted in the English speaking anime community.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#287
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The level of customer delight (and hate) in the anime industry is like no other. except that it doesn't show up as revenue. That's where the problem is - people would obviously prefer to have elite tier subs, but not be willing to pay elite tier prices for it.

Personally, I won't pay to stream anime, but if Blu-Rays had subs as good as what dedicated fansubs can output (incl. a possibly optional more literal translation with honorifics) AND SSA subtitles somewhere on them to be used by computers, I'd actually buy them; if they aren't butchered QTEC crap ( https://github.com/LightArrowsEXE/QTEC ), of course.

I commend you for saying this, but this is akin to saying you would gladly pay me tomorrow for a hamburger today. It doesn’t pay the bills. Perhaps a group could assemble on Patreon or other crowdfunding to acquire rights to make their own releases if they wanted to be part of a market-based solution.

Would you be willing to crowdfund such an enterprise? It’s one thing to say you’ll put your money where your mouth is in some hypothetical future economic situation that may never arrive (as it was never funded by you or by anyone else), whereas it’s altogether another thing entirely to actually do what you say you’ll do in hopes that your investment will come good.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#288
post #271

I wish they would at least include the japanese cc subtitles. They must already exist so I don't understand why they can't just be packaged along with the other subs.

From what I understand, the written translation, in the form of subtitles, that accompanies the original language audio are have their own copyright and are licensed separately to the translated audio version and its closed captions. If they were to include the dubbed audio alongside the translated subtitles, to be compliant with all applicable copyrights, they would be on the hook for licensing costs twice over, which is why the legitimate streaming sites rarely do that, nor do they even expose such a dual-mode capability via the user interface.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nintendo is changing. Switch 2 is outdated over-priced hardware with super expensive games. Not to mention always being extremely hostile to fans and draconically enforcing their copyright. With their recent software patent trolling they are on their way to become the Japanese Oracle. Nvidia has garnered a lot of hate from the gaming community. Completely dishonest marketing, purposefully gimped hardware that barely…

> Switch 2 is outdated over-priced hardware Per most reviewers (e.g. Digital Foundry), the Switch 2 is expensive but not over-priced for what you get (unless what you get is motion sickness from the overdriven LCD display). There's a stark difference between "expensive" and "overpriced". A lot of people have said over the years that Apple's laptops were "overpriced", when what they really meant was that they could ge…

Gaming being a relatively cheap hobby doesn't change the fact that Nintendo is using its market position to raise prices in a coldly capitalistic way that obviously saps some of the "delight" their customers would normally experience.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#290
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching anime dubs with subtitles enabled can be interesting. I've literally seen the dub say "yes" with the sub saying "no."

The answers to negative questions are the other way around in Japanese compared to English. "Are you not a student?" In English, the non-student speaker would respond with "No", short for "No, I am not." In Japanese, the non-student speaker would respond with "Yes", short for "Yes that's correct." A literal translation would make this mistake.

In English it's ambiguous.

Source: I once said "So I guess you don't want to do the long-distance thing" to a native English speaker and she said "no" meaning she did, while I interpreted it the way you suggest and we (briefly) were not on the same page as to whether or not we were in a relationship.

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