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Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

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Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#281

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #147
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you deorbit Venus is such a way that your inflatable balloon city comes to a gentle stop, 30 miles up, and just floats there? Worse still, when people need to leave and return to Earth, how do you launch a rocket from the balloon city and return to orbit? How do visitors or pioneers deorbit and land at the floating city? If there aren't materials to effect a repair, how long until it sinks down into the hellzo…

> such a way that your inflatable balloon city comes to a gentle stop, 30 miles up, and just floats there? Literally how floating works. > Worse still, when people need to leave and return to Earth, how do you launch a rocket from the balloon city and return to orbit? By launching your rocket from the ballon city and returning to orbit. (I'm struggling to see the novel problem.) > Where are materials manufactured for…

> By launching your rocket from the ballon city and returning to orbit. (I'm struggling to see the novel problem.)

Literally how flying planes off Aircraft Carriers works.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#282

Post by glenstein »

HPsquared wrote: post #245
robotomir wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the threat is not environmental collapse but hostile government?

If they can reach your submarine, they can reach your space colony.

Surprise Dodgeball reference. But I don't think the ocean is as far away as deep space. I also think due to its proximity, it could be entangled in political paradigms that lead to entanglements in international conflicts and the independence from those political paradigms affords a form of insulation.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#283

Post by mystraline »

So... We know the composition of the atmosphere. We know the temp bands going down to the surface. We know the pressure bands going down to the surface.

So, have we started to brainstorm of how to spray a whole host of bacteria and viruses, including sulphur eaters, extremeophiles, and genetically modified organisms, and use satellites to launch into the atmosphere?

Sure, it would be humanity's first planetary geoengineering endevour but its not like it'll get worse than 61 MPA and 600c

And the cost of a few space vehicles is what? Wouldn't be THAT expensive. And we'd learn a bunch.

Hmm, maybe China would be interested. Opening up new earth-sized landmasses would be incalculable gains for humanity.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#284

Post by euroderf »

actionfromafar wrote: post #173
sleepy_keita wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was just rereading - it was the radioactivity and the large natural satellite that was unique in his universe. Tides are interesting because once you have life in the oceans, it's a kind of forcing function to adapt to land conditions

Forcing function + making a stretch of land which is neither dry nor enterily wet. A gradient. If there are no tides the leap life has to make is much bigger.

And perhaps the advantages of this gradient extend up as far as aquatic apes.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#285

Post by euroderf »

blueflow wrote: post #233
yazantapuz wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If i remember right, according to one of Asimov's Foundation sequels, the Earth was unique due to its high level natural radioactivity, which allowed it to develop an ecosystem more vibrant than any other planet in the galaxy.

Wasn't Asimov a science fiction writer?

He wrote a book about jokes and how to tell them. Quite good.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#286

Post by glenstein »

o1bf2k25n8g5 wrote: post #185
eloisant wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure we can figure out stuff, but I guess my point is, why would we do that at all? How fucked up Earth needs to be than living on a floating oil platform above Venus is better? The point is already hard to make for the Moon or Mars.

> why would we do that at all? This question is one of a whole genre of "why" questions that come from supposed pragmatists, but I can't help but think the existence of the question misses the entire point. Luckily, one of the older questions of this genre was about why anyone would bother to climb Mount Everest, and ol' Mallory had such a good answer that I'll just paste the whole thing here: > People ask me, 'What…

On some level I agree with the spirit. But I also think it implicitly concedes that there's not good reasons otherwise, which sells it too short. Existential threats to humanity seem like a pretty good reason, to the point that if reasons mean anything at all it should count as one.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#287

Post by euroderf »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #15

The Moon, gently stirring and moving the inner core like oatmeal.

Oh but that's not even the best part. The rare total solar eclipse - those two sky-objects are so similar in size! - motivates (terrified) ancient man to observe, record, theorise, mathematise.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#288

Post by glenstein »

Symmetry wrote: post #276
glenstein wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand correctly there's still a little bit of residual hydrogen bound up in the sulfuric acid molecules. And if you added it all up close to the amount of water you'd get from one of our Great lakes in North America. (At least if you combined it with oxygen, of which there's plenty on Venus). The article mentioned something about heavy water which I don't understand very much. But it's a problem. The traged…

A big issue is that neither seem to have developed photosynthetic life[1] and without a lot of oxygen in the atmosphere they don't have an ozone layer. That means that UV light penetrates further and breaks up water into its constituent parts allowing the light hydrogen to be blown away by the solar wind over geological time scales. [1] It's looking increasingly plausible that Mars developed primitive life, but I'd b…

I think the article speaks to the point you're making also, that the UV light may have been an important (if not primary) mechanism for blasting away Venus' water. So even if someone snapped their fingers and made Venus perfectly terraformed, it probably once again would begin the process of losing its water. And any life would have to survive a brighter sun.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#289

Post by psunavy03 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #281
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> such a way that your inflatable balloon city comes to a gentle stop, 30 miles up, and just floats there? Literally how floating works. > Worse still, when people need to leave and return to Earth, how do you launch a rocket from the balloon city and return to orbit? By launching your rocket from the ballon city and returning to orbit. (I'm struggling to see the novel problem.) > Where are materials manufactured for…

> By launching your rocket from the ballon city and returning to orbit. (I'm struggling to see the novel problem.) Literally how flying planes off Aircraft Carriers works.

Speaking as a former naval aviator, we haven't cracked the whole "cats and traps with an SSTO" bit yet.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#290

Post by dylan604 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #147
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you deorbit Venus is such a way that your inflatable balloon city comes to a gentle stop, 30 miles up, and just floats there? Worse still, when people need to leave and return to Earth, how do you launch a rocket from the balloon city and return to orbit? How do visitors or pioneers deorbit and land at the floating city? If there aren't materials to effect a repair, how long until it sinks down into the hellzo…

> such a way that your inflatable balloon city comes to a gentle stop, 30 miles up, and just floats there? Literally how floating works. > Worse still, when people need to leave and return to Earth, how do you launch a rocket from the balloon city and return to orbit? By launching your rocket from the ballon city and returning to orbit. (I'm struggling to see the novel problem.) > Where are materials manufactured for…

> Yes. Same as if your rocket is trying to land at your Moon or Mars base (or hell, your Earth landing pad) and goes off course, it squashes your colony like a crouton.

The question you answered reads like someone that has missed all of the spectacular fails with Starship tests. Which is the ship designed for these types of adventures, so it seems like a big miss by the GP

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