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Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

sdstate.edu

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Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#281

Post by philipallstar »

jraph wrote: post #280
philipallstar wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect this is how we ended up with this wrapped organic vegetables heresy It could be that things treated without pesticides might require more protection against things attacking them in transit? Who knows.

It would be quite concerning :-) That would mean that we eat active pesticides when buying non organic food. Not that it would totally surprise me neither. We do know that organic markets don't need the plastic though. But they might have shorter circuits as well (which is also a good thing).

> That would mean that we eat active pesticides when buying non organic food. Not that it would totally surprise me neither.

Not necessarily. It could be microbes downstream of pests touching your crops that shorten the shelf life, for example.

> But they might have shorter circuits as well (which is also a good thing).

It's a good thing if you have the time and money to buy things that are more expensive to produce.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#282

Post by jraph »

philipallstar wrote: post #281
jraph wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be quite concerning :-) That would mean that we eat active pesticides when buying non organic food. Not that it would totally surprise me neither. We do know that organic markets don't need the plastic though. But they might have shorter circuits as well (which is also a good thing).

> That would mean that we eat active pesticides when buying non organic food. Not that it would totally surprise me neither. Not necessarily. It could be microbes downstream of pests touching your crops that shorten the shelf life, for example. > But they might have shorter circuits as well (which is also a good thing). It's a good thing if you have the time and money to buy things that are more expensive to produce.

> It's a good thing if you have the time and money to buy things that are more expensive to produce.

Again with the money! We are looping here. I really don't know what you are trying to defend, but not the same thing as me for sure.

I think I will stop there, we are not having a constructive discussion. You are just opposing random stuff without answering key points.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#283

Post by shellfishgene »

darkwater wrote: post #226
alexchamberlain wrote: post #148

The UK banned single use plastic bags at major supermarkets. We all moaned about it for a few minutes, forgot our reusable bags a couple of times and then got on with it. Even the small plastic bags you put fruit or pastries in are now gone in a few super markets - initially, they replaced them with transparent paper-based windowed bags, but then I think people realised you really don't need to see inside the bag, an…

We bring tupperwares when buying groceries for the meat, ham, cheese, fish etc and even if the cynic might say it's just a "feel good" action, well, I still put a lot of plastics in our recycle bin but we halved it since we started doing that (and some other trick). Yes, it definitely feels good.

I don't think containers that come from the customer are allowed behind the counter here for food safety reasons.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#284

Post by darkwater »

shellfishgene wrote: post #283
darkwater wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We bring tupperwares when buying groceries for the meat, ham, cheese, fish etc and even if the cynic might say it's just a "feel good" action, well, I still put a lot of plastics in our recycle bin but we halved it since we started doing that (and some other trick). Yes, it definitely feels good.

I don't think containers that come from the customer are allowed behind the counter here for food safety reasons.

Here they put a sheet (that they would use anyway) on the scale to separate it physically from the container, and what enters the container doesn't leave it (or goes to the trash).

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#285

Post by ddoeth »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #208
mcv wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt the advice would be to throw them in the organic waste if it was plastic.

Some plastics can go in the organic waste bins, such as the organic waste bin bags.

While they can go in the organic waste bins, they still get sorted out at the end because they don't degrade fast enough.

Study from Australia: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0956053X2... Article from California: https://www.siliconvalley.com/2024/11/21/when-compostables-a... German Trash Company: https://www.zakb.de/keine-fremdstoffe-im-bioabfall

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#286

Post by privatelypublic »

CalRobert wrote: post #221
privatelypublic wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30mpg, 10 miles, means two pounds of gasoline, 910grams, knock off or add 100g for ethanol per your preference, a google says about 5grams per bag, so nearly 200 bags. Nowhere close to 10k, but nontrivial. And, this gets reduced and sometimes outright negated if you reuse the bag. Doesn't mean we shouldn't evaluate if plastic shopping bags are the beat choice though. I don't think replacing them with store bought dog…

Don’t forget that a lot of carbon went in to making the road, the parking (deforestation or other land destruction for those should be considered too), the car itself, emissions from tyre wear, brake dust, some plastic for the single use medical devices necessitated by treatment of people struck by drivers, etc etc. Though what is often forgotten is the insane amounts of plastic used in farming. Occlusion fabric for…

I didn't forget, its just awfully hard to fit all that on a napkin.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#287

Post by eptcyka »

const_cast wrote: post #277
throwawayffffas wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to not bother, just make sure your bag ends recycled not in the street or in the ocean.

If you recycle then it's probably just going to a street or ocean somewhere else. Plastic recycling is more or less made up.

They could go into a furnace to get turned into heat, electricity and CO2.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#288

Post by the__alchemist »

mcv wrote: post #152
alexchamberlain wrote: post #148

The UK banned single use plastic bags at major supermarkets. We all moaned about it for a few minutes, forgot our reusable bags a couple of times and then got on with it. Even the small plastic bags you put fruit or pastries in are now gone in a few super markets - initially, they replaced them with transparent paper-based windowed bags, but then I think people realised you really don't need to see inside the bag, an…

Yeah, I still don't understand why brown paper bags aren't more standard for everything. I do see some manufacturers reducing plastic, fortunately. For example, my box of tea bags used to come wrapped in plastic, and now it suddenly doesn't, and I'm wondering why it ever needed plastic. But there's still so much stuff that comes wrapped in plastic, and often multiple layers of it. Just ban it. There are excellent alt…

I agree getting rid of plastic bags is a net win for the reasons discussed.

But I can't take the brown paper bag thing seriously! They are a UX nightmare in my workflows. Carry one bag per trip in multiple trips (Instead of ~4 I can do with reusable or plastic). Or try the handled ones which tear off end up with groceries all over. Reusable bags are nice though.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#289

Post by privatelypublic »

lstodd wrote: post #95
latexr wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don’t you bring plastic bags from home? They are very much reusable, you don’t have to throw them out. They are also quite easy to fold into small shapes and keep on you, or your car, or whatever. I have plastic bags which have endured for literal years. I also decided early on that if I forget to bring a bag, I either do without or have to go back to get one. You start remembering really fast after a few times o…

This. HDPE lasts. So reuse it. Cardboard not so much, but where I live one can just take how many boxes one can haul off various shops and they will just thank you.

We farm trees for paper anyway.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#290

Post by codingdave »

odie5533 wrote: post #81

It's a miraculous thing corporations have done convincing us that we're the ones polluting the environment.

We do pollute. They are worse, but we still do it. And sometimes change needs to start from where you are at, not waiting for someone else to go first.

Relevant fallacy: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as

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