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Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

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Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#281

Post by porridgeraisin »

signatoremo wrote: post #232
amelius wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most strategic move ASML can make is change its licensing structure such that Apple will have to pay 30% of their revenue for using their Fab platform.

Probably a bad advise. ASML can’t make or export products without American licenses: https://www.reuters.com/technology/new-us-rule-foreign-chip-...

This.

Absolutely majority of IP in this field belongs to intel, IBM, KLA and Lam research. Everyone else is a licensee. This is one of the reasons us and allies are desperate to keep bailing out intel, or get it acquired by another american company.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#282

Post by kouteiheika »

debdut wrote: post #179
fastball wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI's gpt-oss-120b has the same license as Mistral's mistral-small-2506 (Apache 2.0). How exactly is this less serious than Mistral?

and gpt-oss is 10x better atleast!

At refusals, certainly!

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#283

Post by nickpinkston »

burnte wrote: post #272
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ASML in turn wraps a bunch of companies for lenses (Carl Zeiss), lasers (Trumpf), etc [0] Given lenses and microchips are both made from sand, I'm gonna conspiracy theory that LLMs were invented by sand companies to sell more sand. [0] https://www.robotsops.com/complete-list-of-all-suppliers-and...

> LLMs were invented by sand companies to sell more sand. Big sand will eat us all. First they squeezed out all the small time sand farmers, now they own the market and need to boost throughput!

Well most of the highest purity quartz for IC manufacturing (crucibles) comes from the Spruce Mine funny enough.

https://www.construction-physics.com/p/does-all-semiconducto...

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#284

Post by mlinsey »

maeln wrote: post #230

ASML gross revenue was 28B€ in 2024, and their net income was 7.5B€. While 1.3B€ (the amount ASML invested in this 1.7B€ fund raise) is not pocket change, it is also an amount that ASML can not afford to lose. While they might have seen some synergy with Mistral, it might also be a complete strategic and/or political investment. Mistral is the only serious "AI" company in the EU right now (if you exclude company work…

I dunno if ASML is lacking any political favor that Mistral can give them, they are already one of the most critical companies for Europe and the entire western supply chain.

There is a possibility this is a step towards building a full-stack all-EU AI - if AI delivers on the hype, the EU will certainly want to have one they fully control without dependency on either the US or China. But this would mean having an EU-based alternative to both TSMC and NVIDIA as well, and it's hard to see how that happens. It probably looks something like the EU passing its own CHIPS act to open TSMC-run fabs on EU soil, making Nvidia chips that are then allocated to Mistral; there is non-EU IP there but the whole operation can at least take place on EU soil.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#285

Post by microtonal »

greyb wrote: post #3

I truly do not see the USP for Mistral other than being based in EU. It's former USP of setting up their models on-premises for clients is now moot with the proliferation of open frontier models. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see a path forward for Mistral at this point, given how far they're behind and their overall lack of competitive advantages for an AI Lab like access to hardware, cheap energy or a mas…

Mistral being in the EU is a feature. A lot of European companies/organizations are hesitant to use US/Chinese LLMs because of privacy reasons. For instance, the university my wife is working at are evaluating using Mistral as their default (and only reimbursed) LLM.

One or two years ago, an US solution would be completely acceptable (with promises to comply with the GDPR). But a lot of damage has been done the last 9 months or so.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#286

Post by Cthulhu_ »

dakiol wrote: post #242

Mistral cannot be “the EU AI company” if they don’t change their remote work policy. A truly “EU AI company” would benefit from the talent pool of all EU, not just from a couple of cities where they happen to have offices.

But they do, because plenty of people are willing to move, especially if the compensation is good.

Caveat, my point of view is limited/blinkered, I've worked with a lot of expats / european migrants but I do think they're the more adventurous types who don't want to settle down somewhere yet. Happy to live in an apartment for a few years and take in the culture type of people.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#287

Post by doctaj »

saubeidl wrote: post #280
tedggh wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You mean the continent that invented pretty much everything you're using to write this post, including electric machines, computers and the world wide web? The anti-Europe propaganda here is insane.

From context, I doubt they are saying that Europe has zero innovation — they’re likely trying to complain about current rules and regulations stifling innovation and progress today. No one thinks Europe has done nothing worthwhile, ever…

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#288

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Degorath wrote: post #279
dewey wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would benefit from the talent pool of all EU I get what you are saying, but one of the core benefits of the EU is the freedom of movement and residence so I don't think not having a remote work policy is disqualifying them from being an EU AI company.

I agree with the OP that it sort of is. Moving around in the EU is a lot more difficult than moving around the US, so a lot of great talent just doesn't want to.

Is it? I get that there's housing crises and cost of living is expensive in the tech hubs, but if you live in one country and want to work in the other you just... go there, sign in with the local county that you live there now, and done.

Or am I missing something?

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#289

Post by cnr »

Aerroon wrote: post #198
cnr wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it can not spy on you but models can be totally (e.g. politically) biased depending on the country of origin. Try to ask european-, us- or china-trained models about "Tiananmen Massacre" and compare the answers. Or consider Trump's recent decisions to get rid of "woke" AI models.

Yeah, but would you trust European censorship to be better? The whole "hate speech" thing is not that uncommon in Europe.

Classic problem: "Who do you love more: mum or dad?" ;) Surely it's naive thinking but as the EU citizen I feel like I've got a little more influence on "European censorship" than on any other. I suppose that ASML feels the same way

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#290

Post by amelius »

vachina wrote: post #200
amelius wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it's probably a patent minefield.

Having directly worked on fab process engineering typically if its patented it’s going to get copied.

I think even then patents can be prohibitive or else https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45181828 does not mean anything.
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