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Claude Sonnet will ship in Xcode

developer.apple.com

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Re: Claude Sonnet will ship in Xcode

#281

Post by jnsaff2 »

pjmlp wrote: post #173

The irony of this, is that Microsoft was trying to push CoPilot everywhere, however eventually Apple, Google and JetBrains have their own AI integrations, taking CoPilot out of the loop. Slowly the AI craziness at Microsoft is taking the similar shape, of going all in at the begining and then losing to the competition, that they also had with Web (IE), mobile (Windows CE/Pocket PC/WP 7/WP 8/UWP), the BUILD sessions t…

What confuses me about MS Copilot is that there are (according to ChatGPT) 12 distinct services that are all Copilot:

Microsoft Copilot (formerly Bing Chat)

Microsoft 365 Copilot

Microsoft Copilot Studio

GitHub Copilot

Microsoft Security Copilot

Copilot for Azure

Copilot for Service

Sales Copilot

Copilot for Data & Analytics (Fabric)

Copilot Pro

Copilot Vision

Re: Claude Sonnet will ship in Xcode

#282

Post by adastra22 »

hollowturtle wrote: post #234
adastra22 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs are not Xerox machines. They can, in fact, produce better code than is in their training set.

That is funny for how much is wrong. Ask the LLMs to vibe code a text editor and you'll get a React app using Supabase. Engineering !== Token prediction

Non sequitur?

I have used agentic coding tools to solve problems that have literally never been solved before, and it was the AI, not me, that came up with the answer.

If you look under the hood, the multi-layered percqptratrons in the attention heads of the LLM are able to encode quite complex world models, derived from compressing its training set in a which which is formally as powerful as reasoning. These compressed model representations are accessible when prompted correctly, which express as genuinely new and innovative thoughts NOT in the training set.

Re: Claude Sonnet will ship in Xcode

#283

Post by icemelt8 »

orphea wrote: post #274
raincole wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft owns 49% of OpenAI so why they should worry? JetBrains just proudly announce that they now use GPT-5 by default. > going all in at the begining and then losing to the competition Sure, but there are counter examples too. Microsoft went late to the party of cloud computing. Today Azure is their main money printing machine. At some point Visual Studio seemed to be a legacy app only used for Windows-specific a…

> At some point Visual Studio seemed to be a legacy app only used for Windows-specific app development. Then they released VSCode and boom! I'm not sure what the point is. Visual Studio is still Windows-only; VS Code is not related to it in any shape or form, the name is deliberately misleading.

> VS Code is not related to it in any shape or form Except they are made by the same company? and literally own the trademark for both?

Re: Claude Sonnet will ship in Xcode

#284

Post by pjmlp »

yokoprime wrote: post #193
pjmlp wrote: post #173

The irony of this, is that Microsoft was trying to push CoPilot everywhere, however eventually Apple, Google and JetBrains have their own AI integrations, taking CoPilot out of the loop. Slowly the AI craziness at Microsoft is taking the similar shape, of going all in at the begining and then losing to the competition, that they also had with Web (IE), mobile (Windows CE/Pocket PC/WP 7/WP 8/UWP), the BUILD sessions t…

CoPilot isn't anything Microsoft is trying to sell outside of their own products. And with GitHub Copilot there is no "copilot" model to choose, you can choose between Anthropic, OpenAI and Google models. Sure UWP never caught on, but you know why? Win32, which by the way is also Microsoft, was way to popular and more flexible. Devs weren't going to re-write their apps to UWP in order to support phones.

UWP was more than just phones, https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2015/03/02/a-firs...

And Windows 11 was the reboot of Windows 10X,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztrmrIlgbIc

Re: Claude Sonnet will ship in Xcode

#285

Post by pjmlp »

icemelt8 wrote: post #203
pjmlp wrote: post #173

The irony of this, is that Microsoft was trying to push CoPilot everywhere, however eventually Apple, Google and JetBrains have their own AI integrations, taking CoPilot out of the loop. Slowly the AI craziness at Microsoft is taking the similar shape, of going all in at the begining and then losing to the competition, that they also had with Web (IE), mobile (Windows CE/Pocket PC/WP 7/WP 8/UWP), the BUILD sessions t…

umm I don't know what you are talking about, I use a Github Copilot 40 USD subscription in VSCode to code using various models, and this is the industry standard now in my region, as most employers are now giving employees the 10 USD subscription.

In what industry? Not where I am where unless customers actually sign a permission no one is allowed to come close to those tools in project delivery.

Re: Claude Sonnet will ship in Xcode

#286

Post by mcv »

pjmlp wrote: post #173

The irony of this, is that Microsoft was trying to push CoPilot everywhere, however eventually Apple, Google and JetBrains have their own AI integrations, taking CoPilot out of the loop. Slowly the AI craziness at Microsoft is taking the similar shape, of going all in at the begining and then losing to the competition, that they also had with Web (IE), mobile (Windows CE/Pocket PC/WP 7/WP 8/UWP), the BUILD sessions t…

I use IntelliJ with the Copilot plugin, using Claude. My employer has a big subscription for everything from Microsoft, and that includes Copilot, so that's free for me. But somehow Copilot also gives me access to Claude. No idea how that works.

Re: Claude Sonnet will ship in Xcode

#287

Post by ramchip »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #269
rajnathani wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About GitHub Copilot in specific: One big negative was how when GPT-4 became available that Microsoft didn't upgrade paying Copilot users to it, they simply branded this "coming soon"/"beta" Copilot X for a while. We simply cancelled the only Copilot subscription we had at work.

Copilot subscription ? I've been getting monthly emails that my free access for GitHub Copilot has been renewed for another month… for years. I've never used it, I thought that all GitHub users got it for free.

There's a free tier, and various paid tiers: https://github.com/features/copilot/plans

Re: Claude Sonnet will ship in Xcode

#288

Post by raincole »

orphea wrote: post #274
raincole wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft owns 49% of OpenAI so why they should worry? JetBrains just proudly announce that they now use GPT-5 by default. > going all in at the begining and then losing to the competition Sure, but there are counter examples too. Microsoft went late to the party of cloud computing. Today Azure is their main money printing machine. At some point Visual Studio seemed to be a legacy app only used for Windows-specific a…

> At some point Visual Studio seemed to be a legacy app only used for Windows-specific app development. Then they released VSCode and boom! I'm not sure what the point is. Visual Studio is still Windows-only; VS Code is not related to it in any shape or form, the name is deliberately misleading.

The point is MS was so, so, so late to the party of cross-platform developer tools. And then suddenly they won the game.

Re: Claude Sonnet will ship in Xcode

#289

Post by Towaway69 »

WalterSear wrote: post #275
Towaway69 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just a thought experiment. I don't mean to be treading on feet but I'm noticing this more and more in the debates around AI. Imagine if there are developers out there that could have done this task in 30 mins without AI. The level of performanace of AI solutions is heavily related to the experience level of the developer and of the problem space being tackled - as this thread points out. Unfortunately the mar…

IMHO, the thirty minute developer would still save 10 minutes by vibe coding. That marketing's not wrong. Spelling out exactly what you want and checking/fixing what you receive is still faster than typing out the code. Moreover, nobody's job involves nothing but brainiac coding, day after day. You have to clean up and lay foundations, whatever level you are at.

> IMHO, the thirty minute developer would still save 10 minutes by vibe coding. That marketing's not wrong.

For me, that's too general. Of course, perhaps for this particular, specific problem it might be true. But as this thread points out, anything niche and AI fails to help productively. Of course then comes the marketing: just wait, AI will be able to cover those niche cases also.

> want and checking/fixing what you receive is still faster than typing out the code

Then I do wonder why there are developers at all. After all that's what AI is so good at - if one believes the marketing - being precise and describing exactly what needs to be done. Surely it must be faster having two AIs talking to each and hammering out the code.

And even typing is subjective: ten fingers versus two, versus four .. etc. There are developers that can type faster than they can think - in certain cases.

There is also the developer in flow versus the stop and go using an AI prompts to get it just right. I dunno, if it comes true, then thankfully there won't be any humans to create bugs in code but somehow, I can't see it happening.

Re: Claude Sonnet will ship in Xcode

#290

Post by grumple »

suyash wrote: post #267

Still shocked Apple has not created thier own LLM, they have bought so many AI companies and have a rich talent pool and money so what's stopping them ?

Maybe they figure it’s just going to be hot swappable models and they’d rather save the 10s of billions on training for a commodified service.
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