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4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

bbc.co.uk

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Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#281

Post by Kazik24 »

chii wrote: post #210
speedylight wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think eventually we will reach a point where laws like the Online Safety Act become so prevalent that it is basically impossible to comply with all of them simultaneously and still have a unified internet across the globe. I wouldn’t be surprised if in 10 years or so every country has its own version of the internet only intended for their own people.

> still have a unified internet across the globe. which might be the end goal - the internet, with freedom of communication, is a way that the plebs can organize and resist authoritarianism. And as countries are growing increasingly authoritarian (and i include UK here), they may be planning on preventing the old free internet that has enabled so much. So as technologists here at HN, there needs to be a pre-emptive s…

Applications based on QUIC and/or P2P might be an option. QUIC is designed to not be as easy to filter as TCP + TLS. But then right now it can be blocked by just blocking UDP. But if majority of the internet would use QUIC then blocking UDP would mean blocking most of the internet so the governments wouldn't be so eager do nationwide firewalls (hopefully).

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#282

Post by const_cast »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #108
xoa wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do you think the public at large knows what VPS are? How to set up a VPN? Do you think the general public NEEDS to know those things right now? Because that's what actually mostly drives what people put in the time to learn. This smug elitist "everyone is dumb except me the tech wizard" sort of comment shows up every such thread and it's deeply irksome. Most people are plenty intelligent and can easily learn things…

It's not elitist to remark that people tech skills are atrophying. The zoomers literally have memes about how bad are at tech stuff. Setting a VPN is 100% not trivial, I know that because I recently set up a wireguard vpn on a VPS. Not impossible, sure, but out of the reach for a normal person. Sure, one can ask a techie friend (if one's has a techie friend capable of self-hosting a VPN). So now instead of the gov ba…

I think there's a good chance that when normies have to upload a picture of their real life ID to watch a funny tiktok or read a tweet they might start looking into VPNs.

Right now most of the privacy violations are covert and everyone is dishonest. Nobody reads TOS or EULA, Google just say "pinky promise we're not mean!", etc.

But there's no way to automate scanning someone's face to view a Garfield comic.

Governments are getting far too cavalier. They're flying too close to the sun here. They've already gotten away with murder and then some, they should quit while they're ahead.

Their greed will be their downfall. People will eventually push back.

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#283

Post by apolitic »

jon-wood wrote: post #205
linuxftw wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AIUI, the UK is a democracy The House of Lords disagrees and the Monarch disagree. Sometimes they cosplay as a democracy.

Neither the House of Lords or the Monarch can actually stop Parliament passing a law. They can in some cases slow them down, but if Parliament really wants a law passed it will happen.

As shown by the proroguing of parliament by Boris Johnson on the September 9th, from September 10th to October 14th in 2019 (1), just a couple of months before the COVID19 pandemic landed and the first cases were being reported.

This action to prorogue was however later deemed unlawful by the Supreme Court on the 24th September 2019 (2). See recent changes to senior members, and subsequent rulings on matters of state importance by the Supreme Court for a look at what happens when they try to correct parliamentary actions by the ruling party. They have been singing from the governmental hymn sheet ever since.

Whither democracy? Whither justice?

1. https://labourheartlands.com/parliament-has-been-prorogued-a...

2. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/decision-of-the-supreme...

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#284

Post by lokar »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #234
lokar wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracies can and do correct. It takes time and effort, but it happens. For example the progressive movement in the US.

>Democracies can and do correct. Yes, but when you ignore citizens' demands for too long, they will then over-correct in the opposite direction: see Hitler, Brexit, Trump, AFD, LePenn, Meloni, etc. History has proved this to be correct 100% of the time. >For example the progressive movement in the US Can you provide more details, I'm not an US citizen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Era

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#285

Post by Auracle »

const_cast wrote: post #278
ovi256 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CF will cooperate with UK authorities because they're not in 4chan's business.

I doubt it heavily. CF has control over a large chunk of the global internet - they're not going to go thru their clients one by one and make sure they're doing age verification. That's absurd and far too expensive. The alternative to that is either: 1. UK blocks cloudflare (unlikely, come on now) 2. UK gives cloudflare a pass (fairly common) 3. Somewhere in-between. Maybe UK cares about highly visible people behind…

Won’t it just be the UK telling Cloudflare to block 4chan specifically for the UK (or we’ll fine you too)?

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#286

Post by const_cast »

Auracle wrote: post #285
const_cast wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it heavily. CF has control over a large chunk of the global internet - they're not going to go thru their clients one by one and make sure they're doing age verification. That's absurd and far too expensive. The alternative to that is either: 1. UK blocks cloudflare (unlikely, come on now) 2. UK gives cloudflare a pass (fairly common) 3. Somewhere in-between. Maybe UK cares about highly visible people behind…

Won’t it just be the UK telling Cloudflare to block 4chan specifically for the UK (or we’ll fine you too)?

Yeah that's option 3, for now. But they won't go after cloudflare in the general case because it's too risky IMO. And cloudflare will only comply to the absolute minimum they can get away with, because they can't burn money auditing every single customer behind cloudflare.

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#287

Post by andrewaylett »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #267
andrewaylett wrote: post #263

Americans complaining about extra-territorial application of laws? As much as I dislike the OSA, if you're not in the UK you can -- and probably should -- just ignore it. Unless you care specifically about interacting with users or businesses in the UK, in which case you probably need to comply. Unlike the USA, we're generally incapable of successfully demanding everyone everywhere go along with whatever overreach we…

> Unlike the USA, we're generally incapable of successfully demanding everyone everywhere go along with whatever overreach we might think up. I can understand why someone might think the UK still has as much influence as it did 50-75 years ago when you consider how prevalent that "UKCA" symbol is (the one that was introduced to replace the "CE" mark post-Brexit).

It's fairly prevalent, but actually the UK government gave up on replacing CE a couple of years ago: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-announces-e...

I'm sure the companies who put effort into adopting UKCA were really happy to have put in that effort :P. Even if it's I hope not as onerous as adopting it (or CE) from scratch, as they both have quite similar (if not originally identical?) requirements. It seemed more intended to give the impression of Brexit success than of actually making a difference to anything.

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#288

Post by transcriptase »

_mlbt wrote: post #252
jonplackett wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is part of a wider trend of trying to solve real world problems with the stroke of a pen. It’s not going well.

Just give up a few more rights…for everyone’s safety. Think of the children!

“just one more law bro. i promise bro just one more law and we’ll be safe bro. it’s just a little more surveillance bro. please just one more. one more law and we’ll stop all the threats bro. bro c’mon just give me access to your data and we’ll protect you i promise bro. think of the children bro. bro bro please we just need one more law bro, one more camera, one more database, and then we’ll all be safe bro”

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#289

Post by supriyo-biswas »

worewood wrote: post #248
supriyo-biswas wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DNS poisoning and rejection of TLS handshakes based on SNI.

Encrypted Client Hello and DNS over HTTPS.

Drop all ECH TLS connections, as China does.

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#290

Post by waltbosz »

ImJamal wrote: post #277
waltbosz wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My solution was to set my router to use the DNS server at 1.1.1.3 which blocks adult sites. https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-1-1-1-1-for-families...

I assume this doesn't block porn on reddit or non-porn websites?

No, it just blocks DNS requests from a list of porn hostnames.
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