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Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

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Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#281

Post by exe34 »

casenmgreen wrote: post #162
diwank wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Future robots may learn in their dreams... So prescient. I definitely think this will be a thing in the near future ~12-18 months time horizon

I may be wrong, but this seems to make no sense. A neural net can produce information outside of its original data set, but it is all and directly derived from that initial set. There are fundamental information constraints here. You cannot use a neural net to itself generate from its existing data set wholly new and original full quality training data for itself. You can use a neural net to generate data, and you ca…

Any idea how humans do it? Where do they get novel information from?

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#282

Post by stillpointlab »

timeattack wrote: post #75

Advances in generative AI are making me progressively more and more depressive. Creativity is taken from us at exponential rate. And I don't buy argument from people who are saying they are excited to live in this age. I can get that if that technology stopped at current state and remained to be just tools for our creative endeavours, but it doesn't seem to be an endgame here. Instead it aims to be a complete replace…

> I don't buy argument from people who are saying they are excited to live in this age

What argument is required for excitement? Excitement is a feeling not a rational act. It comes from optimism and imagination. There is no argument for optimism. There is often little reason in imagination.

> How to even find the value in living given all of that?

You might have heard of the Bhagavad Gita, a 2000+ year old spiritual text. It details a conversation between a warrior prince and a manifestation of God. The warrior prince is facing a very difficult battle and he is having doubts justifying any action in the face of the decisions he has to make. He is begging this manifestation of God to give him good reasons to act, good reasons not just to throw his weapons down, give away all his possessions and sit in a cave somewhere.

There are no definite answers in the text, just meditations on the question. Why should we act when the result is ultimately pointless, we will all die, people will forget you, situations will be resolved with or without you, etc.

This isn't some new question that LLMs are forcing us to confront. LLMs are just providing us a new reason to ask the same age-old questions we have been facing for as long as writing has existed.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#283

Post by seydor »

teamonkey wrote: post #248
seydor wrote: post #80

Would progress in these be faster if they created 3d meshes and animations instead of full frame videos?

I always wonder why they’re not chasing more pragmatic and lower-hanging fruit first. There’s absolutely no reason that a game needs to be generated frame-by-frame like this. It seems like a deeply unserious approach to making games. (My feeling is that it must be easier to train this way.)

well actually image output is fixed and there s lots of training data. Neural networks can learn anything in their latent space so there is no need to impose 3D rendering constraints, and it s not evident that it's less efficient (for the model).

3D model rendering would be useful however for interfacing with robots.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#284

Post by vessenes »

timeattack wrote: post #75

Advances in generative AI are making me progressively more and more depressive. Creativity is taken from us at exponential rate. And I don't buy argument from people who are saying they are excited to live in this age. I can get that if that technology stopped at current state and remained to be just tools for our creative endeavours, but it doesn't seem to be an endgame here. Instead it aims to be a complete replace…

Don’t be mad bro. Seriously. Every single person working on a film has creative input, not just someone hand painting a backdrop. You have an immense number of tools available to be creative with now. This is a great thing!

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#285

Post by internetter »

calebh wrote: post #280
internetter wrote: post #258

I feel like this tech is a dead end. If it could instead generate 3d models which are then rendered, that would be immensely useful. Eliminates memory and playtime constraints, allows it to be embedded in applications like games. But this? Where do we go from here? Even if we eliminate all graphical issues and get latency from 1s to 0, what purpose does it serve?

I think the most likely path forward for commercialization/widespread use is to use AI as a post-processing filter for low poly games. Imagine if you could take low quality/low poly assets, run it through a game engine to add some basic lighting, then pass this through AI to get a photo-realistic image. This solves the most egregious cases of world inconsistency and still allows for creative human fine-tuning. The tr…

Don’t we already have upscalers which are frequently used in games for this purpose? Maybe they could go further and get better but I’d expect a model specifically designed to improve the quality of an existing image to be better/more efficient at doing so than an image generation model retrofitted to this purpose.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#286

Post by pessimizer »

timeattack wrote: post #75

Advances in generative AI are making me progressively more and more depressive. Creativity is taken from us at exponential rate. And I don't buy argument from people who are saying they are excited to live in this age. I can get that if that technology stopped at current state and remained to be just tools for our creative endeavours, but it doesn't seem to be an endgame here. Instead it aims to be a complete replace…

> I don't think there was ever a period of time where creative works were just created for sake of itself rather for sharing it with others at masse.

You don't think there was ever a time without a mass media culture? Plenty of people have furniture older than mass media culture. Even 20 years ago people could manage to be creative for a tiny audience of what were possibly other people doing creative things. It's only the zoomers who have never lived in a world where you never thought to consider how you could sell the song you were writing in your bedroom to the Chinese market.

It used to be that music didn't come on piano rolls, records, tapes, CDs or files. It used to be that your daughter would play music on the piano in the living room for the entire family. Even if it was music that wouldn't really sell, and wasn't perfectly played, people somehow managed to enjoy it. It was not a situation that AI could destroy. If anything, AI could assist.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#287

Post by SirHumphrey »

lentil_soup wrote: post #250
pixelesque wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting to me along these lines is I assume most of the companies funding the research are targeting the "creative" media in terms of image generation, music generation, avatars, speach, etc. I can understand it's very interesting from a researcher's point-of-view (I'm a software dev who's worked adjacent to some ML researchers doing pipeline stuff to integrate models into software), but at the same time:…

Or replacing CEOs, investors, bankers? I would have thought those would be easier to replace than creating robots to clean or replacing artists, or even developers. Maybe I am wrong?

All these jobs are more who you know not what you know. The social network of these people is often an integral part of the work, so they are in a sense much safer than programmers, accountants and artists.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#288

Post by jp1016 »

This looks incredibly promising not just for AI research but for practical use cases in game development. Being able to generate dynamic, navigable 3D environments from text prompts could save studios hundreds of hours of manual asset design and prototyping. It could also be a game-changer for indie devs who don’t have big teams.

Another interesting angle is retrofitting existing 2D content (like videos, images, or even map data) into interactive 3D experiences. Imagine integrating something like this into Google Maps suddenly street view becomes a fully explorable 3D simulation generated from just text or limited visual data.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#289

Post by pessimizer »

podgietaru wrote: post #100
skybrian wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already live in a world where a vast library of songs by musicians who play much better than you are readily available on YouTube and Spotify. This seems like more of the same?

I like living in a world where I know that people who have spent actually time on nurturing a talent get rewarded for doing so, even if that talent is not something I will ever be good at. I don't want to live in a world where these things are generated cheaply and easily for the profit of a very select few group of people. I know the world doesn't work like I described in the top paragraph. But it's a lot closer to…

> I like living in a world where I know that people who have spent actually time on nurturing a talent get rewarded for doing so, even if that talent is not something I will ever be good at.

That world has only existed for the last hundred or so years, and the talent is usually brutally exploited by people whose main talent is parasitism. Only a tiny percentage of people who sell creative works can make a living out of it; the living to be made is in buying their works at a premium, bundling them, and reselling them, while offloading almost all of the risk to the creative as an "advance."

Then you're left in a situation where both the buyer of art and the creator of art are desperate to pander to the largest audience possible because everybody is leveraged. It's a dogshit world that creates dogshit art.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#290

Post by stronglikedan »

timeattack wrote: post #75

Advances in generative AI are making me progressively more and more depressive. Creativity is taken from us at exponential rate. And I don't buy argument from people who are saying they are excited to live in this age. I can get that if that technology stopped at current state and remained to be just tools for our creative endeavours, but it doesn't seem to be an endgame here. Instead it aims to be a complete replace…

> How to even find the value in living given all of that?

If your value in living is in any way affected by AI, ever, then, well, let's just say I would never choose that for myself. Good luck.

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