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Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

blog.kilocode.ai

281–290 of 363 posts

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#281
post #280
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Went to see if I could cancel my Claude pro plan just now. On billing I see adjust plan button. On that page I can upgrade but no where can I find downgrade/cancel. I checked the account page. I see delete account but "To delete your account, please cancel your Claude Pro subscription first." Update: below the fold at the bottom of the Billing page is the cancel section and cancel button. Update 2: just clicked cance…

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Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#282
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which one wins? We don't really know yet, that's my point. There are contradictory studies on the topic. See for instance [1] that sees productivity decrease when AI is used. Other studies show the opposite. We are also seeing the first wave of blog posts from developers abandoning the LLMs. What's more, most people are not masters. This is critically important. If only masters see a productivity increase, others s…

There's a clear difference between "I have used these tools, tested their limits, and have opinions" and "I am consuming media narratives about why AI is bad" AI presently has a far lower footprint on the globe than the meat industry -- The US Beef industry alone far outpaces the impact of AI. As far as "work pillaging" - There is cognitive dissonance in supporting the freedom of information/cultural progress and sim…

> consuming media narratives about why AI is bad

That's quite uncharitable.

I don't need to use it to make these points. While I might show a lack of perspective, I don't need to do X to reasonably think X can be bad. You can replace X with all sorts of horrible things, I'll let the creativity of the readers fill in the gap.

> AI presently has a far lower footprint on the globe than [X]

We see the same kind of arguments for planes, cars, anything with a big impact really. It still has a huge (and growing) environmental impact, and the question is do the advantages outweigh the drawbacks?

For instance, if a video call tool allowed you to have a meeting without taking a plane, the video call tool had a positive impact. But then there's also the ripple effect: if without the tool, the meeting hadn't happened at all, the positive impact is less clear. And/or if the meeting was about burning huge amounts of fuel, the positive impact is even less clear, just like LLMs might just allow us to produce attention-seeking, energy-greedy shitty software at a faster speed (if they indeed work well in the long run).

And while I can see how things like ML can help (predicting weather, etc), I'm more skeptical about LLMs.

And I'm all for stopping the meat disaster as well.

> We don't see eye to eye, and I think that's ok. We can re-evaluate our predictions in a year!

Yep :-)

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I thought you were supposed to be boosting AI? Why are you so bitter? You aren't going to sell any snake oil with this venomous strategy.

I think I started the bitterness. I'm sorry. Everyone has genuine hurt. People who have bought the AI product are hurt because they're weakened and vulnerable by their dependence on buying their own productivity back from a reseller who is now raising the prices.

I get cheesed off cause the AI people disrespect hard work and try to devalue its rewards, and that message is just toxic to anyone trying to learn. You can't master a musical instrument by paying an assistant to practice it for you.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#284
post #111

There’s only one way unlimited plans work: either the seller gets scammed, or the buyer does. When companies sell unlimited plans, they’re making a bet that the average usage across all of those plans will be low enough to turn a profit. These people “abusing” the plan are well within their right to use the API as much as they want. It just didn’t fall into the parameters Anthropic had expected. LLM subscriptions nee…

> When companies sell unlimited plans, Anthropic never sold an unlimited plan It’s amazing that so many people think there was an unlimited plan. There was not an unlimited plan. > These people “abusing” the plan are well within their right to use the API as much as they want. It just didn’t fall into the parameters Anthropic had expected. Correct! And they did. And now Anthropic is changing those limits in a month.…

>Anthropic never sold an unlimited plan

I'm told the $200/month plan was practically unlimited, I heard you could leave ~10 instances of Claude Code running 24/7. I will never pay for any of these subscriptions however so I haven't verified that.

>And now Anthropic is changing those limits in a month.

Which indicates the seller was being scammed. Now they're changing the limits so it swings back to being a scam for the user.

>I’m confused about why there’s so much anger about something that already exists

Yes but much LLM tooling requires a subscription. I'm not talking only about Anthropic/Claude Code. I can't use chatgpt.com using my own API key. Even though behind the scenes, if I had a subscription, it would be calling out to the exact same API.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one working on novel tech, without AI. I've never been doing more valuable work or been more in command of my craft. Yet the blanket statement is that I will fail and be replaced, and in fact that people like me don't exist! So heck yeah I'll come clap back on that.

Continuing to develop my craft in the 4th straight year of numbskulls claiming that Chat GPT is the end of history has made me extraordinarily confident in my ability to secure lucrative developer work for the rest of my life.

It is not productive to call people numbskulls and make straw-man arguments just because you don't agree with their statements, or may not have observed the same benefits that they have.

There is absolutely something real here, whether you choose to believe it or not. I'd recommend taking a good faith and open minded look at the last few months of developments. See where it can benefit you (and where it still falls way short).

So even if you may have arrived at your conclusion years ago, I assure you that things continue to improve by the week. You will be pleasantly surprised. This is not all or nothing, nor does it have to be.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#286
post #262
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cognitive augmentation that allows developers to navigate complexity at scales human cognition wasn't designed for I don't think you should use LLMs for something you can't master without. > will find themselves unable to compete I'd wait a bit more before concluding so affirmatively. The AI bubble would very much like us to believe this, but we don't yet know very well the long term effects of using LLMs on code,…

> I don't think you should use LLMs for something you can't master without. I'm not sure, I frequently use LLMs for well-scoped math-heavy functions (mostly for game development) where I don't neccessarly understand what's going on inside the function, but I know what output I expect given some inputs, so it's easy for me to kind of blackbox test it with unit tests and iterate on the "magic" inside with an LLM. I gue…

I can't comment on your well-scoped case. I can still see it backfire (in terms of maintenance) but it does seem you are precocious and are limiting the potential damages, with your unit tests you are increasing at least the level of confidence you can have on the LLM output and it's on a very specific part of your code.

I didn't have such cases in mind, was replying to the "navigate complexity at scales human cognition wasn't designed for" aspect.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#287
post #63

When you offer "unlimited", you're immediately exposing yourself to the 0.1% of userbase that will absolutely treat it is unlimited. Whale users/hoarders. This has been a known problem since the dawn of hosting...hell, it goes back to times before computers. One thing I miss for the other users, i.e. the casual users that never use anywhere near of their quota, is rollover. If you haven't used your quota this month,…

Things would be much easier if, instead of “unlimited”, companies simply offered great usage limits. Yes, hoarders would still exist, but their impact would be negligible. Even better: provide a counter displaying both remaining usage available and the quota reset time. But companies probably earn so much money from the vast majority of users that having good and clear limits would only empower them to actually benef…

I disagree. People will always hoard a constrained resource. Things like phone service and AI tools find their value when people use them freely.

The AI models have a bunch of different consumption models aimed at different types of use. I work at a huge company, and we’re experimenting with different ways of using LLMs for users based on different compliance and business needs. The people using all you can eat products like NotebookLM, Gemini, ChatGPT use them much more on average and do more varied tasks. There is a significant gap between low/normal/high users.

People using an interface to a metered API, which offers a defined LLM experience consume fewer resources and perform more narrowly scoped tasks.

The cost is similar and satisfaction is about the same.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#288

The huge positive publicity boost that Claude Code gained during its unlimited phase was surely easily worth the slight negative publicity it is getting now. This post is just marketing copy by a small competitior that can't afford to do the same thing.

> gained during its unlimited phase It was never unlimited. They never advertised unlimited usage. The Max plan clearly said it had higher limits. This fabrication of a backstory is so weird. Why do so many people believe this?

Fair enough, substitute "unlimited" for "extremely high limits that most people very rarely hit"

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#289

I didn't look at the URL at first and was surprised when this turned in to an ad. Oh well! > Stop selling "unlimited", when you mean "until we change our minds" The limits don't go in to affect until August 28th, one month from yesterday. Is there an option to buy the Max plan yearly up front? I honestly don't know; I'm on the monthly plan. If there isn't a yearly purchase option, no one is buying unlimited and then…

TBH paying yearly for ANY LLM tool at this time is just pure insanity. The field is moving so fast that whatever was best 6 months ago is completely outdated. And what is top tier today, might be trash in a few months.

The second sentence is revealing. The creation of the 787 didn’t make the 747 “trash”.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#290

When you offer "unlimited", you're immediately exposing yourself to the 0.1% of userbase that will absolutely treat it is unlimited. Whale users/hoarders. This has been a known problem since the dawn of hosting...hell, it goes back to times before computers. One thing I miss for the other users, i.e. the casual users that never use anywhere near of their quota, is rollover. If you haven't used your quota this month,…

in cursor you can just set a monthly spend limit at api pricing. seems like what you are looking for
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