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Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

ponylang.io

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Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#281

Post by jibal »

jibal wrote: post #212
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oof I'm pretty sure that's a fallacy, let me just consult the manual here...

Speaking of fallacies, it's complete nonsense (not the only example of it from that source) to say that the comment in question was a True Scotsman Fallacy (or any other kind of fallacy). Saying that a certain kind of Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge is very different from saying that no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.

And not a word of the response is correct ... it simply repeats errors in logic and fact and a complete failure to understand the salient features of a No True Scotsman fallacy (which is a denial that someone who is by definition a Scotsman is not a TRUE Scotsman ... a distinction that is purely pejorative with no actual semantic content; saying that a "certain sort" of Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge indicates disdain for such Scotsmen but is not any sort of fallacy), and throws in some snarky projection ... but my comments are devoid of irony.

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#282

Post by jibal »

fouric wrote: post #239
poulpy123 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the syntax is not important, that would mean coding in whitespace or malboge would be as easy as coding in python

The GP is factually wrong. There's plenty of empirical evidence to indicate that language influences thought, and that syntax is therefore important. Although, I would point out that while your argument ad absurdum is generally reasonable (the fact that syntax can make the difference between a very good language and an unusable one), whitespace and malbolge also have terrible semantics that contribute to them being u…

> The GP is factually wrong. There's plenty of empirical evidence to indicate that language influences thought, and that syntax is therefore important.

I never said anything to the contrary. I specifically stated that syntax was not an important consideration in the design of Pony language. That does not imply the numerous strawmen that you and others attacked here. As Tainnor correctly and honestly noted:

"it's a valid argument when somebody is speaking in absolutes, but I haven't seen GGP do that. There's a difference between saying "all syntax is completely arbitrary" and "syntax is not the point" - the latter suggests to me that if you stay within certain reasonable bounds (e.g. not be whitespace or malbolge), whether you use significant whitespace of braces, the language looks more like Pascal or like C, etc. are of minor importance in the grand scheme of things. Which is something you may disagree with, but it's a much more reasonable point that anything you can just counter with "but whitspace!"."

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#283

Post by jibal »

Tainnor wrote: post #243
fouric wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP is factually wrong. There's plenty of empirical evidence to indicate that language influences thought, and that syntax is therefore important. Although, I would point out that while your argument ad absurdum is generally reasonable (the fact that syntax can make the difference between a very good language and an unusable one), whitespace and malbolge also have terrible semantics that contribute to them being u…

> There's plenty of empirical evidence to indicate that language influences thought, and that syntax is therefore important. Are you talking about natural languages here? The so called Sapir Whorf thesis - in its strong or weak form - is rather controversial. There are some interesting findings, but the interpretation of them is still hotly debated. In any case, none of the studies that I've seen (e.g. about colour p…

Thank you for the refreshingly honest and accurate comment.

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#284

Post by 0x457 »

__red__ wrote: post #277
0x457 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so you're telling me this is valid Pony? actor Main new create(env: Env) => TCPListener(TCPListenAuth(env.root), Listener(env.out)) ?? If so, I don't want to every see that language in my life ever again.

So you like languages that treat whitespace as syntax. That's fine, we all have our preferences :D

No? But Pony is clearly just like python in terms of whitespace?
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