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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#281

Post by deelowe »

more_corn wrote: post #67

The problems with the civilian version (the 320) are well documented (by law enforcement officers and the civilian community) and there appears to be a root cause and solution. (Not an expert but replaced trigger group?)

Two different issues. Drop safe and uncommanded discharge. The rework is only for the former. Sig still denies the latter has ever happened. I'm guessing that's about to change though as I know of 3 separate instances of uncommanded discharge that are well documented. Two with law enforcement (one on video posted earlier in this thread) and now this one). There's something very off with the FCG in this firearm.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#282

Post by Der_Einzige »

8note wrote: post #193
esseph wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always carry chambered. 1. When you need it you won't remember to chamber due to stress 2. stress causes fine motor skill distortion 3. Only draw when you are prepared to fire (or you end up dealing with Brandishing laws)

a better alternative would be to not carry. if the stress is gonna mess with your fine motor control, youre probably gonna accidentally shoot a bystander anyways, because you happened to have been laid off earlier in the day. the stree messes with your memory, so the barista looks like a threat. the stress messes with your fine motor skill, so you hit the guy waiting for his coffee. and of course, you gotta shoot the…

don't forget shooting yourself at the end so you don't have to feel bad about shooting others!

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#283

Post by dkga »

ml-anon wrote: post #280

How is this in anyway tech/HN related?

In the most abstract terms, this unfortunate death occurred because a gadget/device completely failed its security checks.

Apparently judging by the information at the end of the text, Sig Sauer is the “Boeing” of firearms.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#284

Post by AceyMan »

tshaddox wrote: post #65
katmannthree wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you're going to carry, you should choose something that's safe to carry with a round chambered (i.e. not a Sig P320). There are countless videos showing real-world examples of defensive handgun use. One common thread is that there's virtually no time between when you realize you're going to need your sidearm and when you need it. The extra second it takes to rack the slide and chamber a round can be the di…

> One common thread is that there's virtually no time between when you realize you're going to need your sidearm and when you need it. I would be surprised if this is true for the majority of situations. I'm sure there are situations where you have very little time, but also many situations where the additional time it would take to chamber a round is negligible.

This just in: you don't get to pick the category of the emergency when SHTF.

That's like saying "I only wear seat belts on the freeway" or something equivalently vapid.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#285

Post by AceyMan »

TheFreim wrote: post #144
mywittyname wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People take this "every second counts" idea as though it's axiomatic. I've been in my fair share of sus situations in my life and they've been either telegraphed (people starting with yelling, then intimidation, then getting into personal space) or ambiguous. I was recently at a block party with a loud DJ, and some guys fired several rounds and it took minutes to figure out what was going on. Even the first responder…

> I've been in my fair share of sus situations in my life and they've been either telegraphed (people starting with yelling, then intimidation, then getting into personal space) or ambiguous. The problem is that in a "sus situation" you would not be able to chamber a round without brandishing the firearm, which in many situation would be illegal in a merely "sus" situation where you don't have a clear threat (brandis…

When I carried regularly I was always *extremely conscious" of having a sidearm(s) at the ready. And, knowing the the civil laws of engagement (=> I read all of Massad Ayoob's stuff) the result—for me at least—it makes you the most meek, chill person ever (if you actually understand the power that you have on tap which I surely did).

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#286

Post by rdl »

TheAmazingRace wrote: post #17

It's crazy how the P320 has such a bad reputation, while the P365, a 9mm micro-pistol by Sig Sauer, is a phenomenal piece of kit by comparison. I purchased mine in 2018 and it's seen thousands of rounds put through it with zero issues encountered.

I am mostly a P365 carrier/shooter now, but for a couple years a P320 Compact was my primary handgun (with an X5 P226 SAO for competition); I put probably 15-20k rounds through the P320 (1k round classes, etc, back when ammo was $150-180/case) (and never got the drop-safe mod done), and no problems. So it's some combination of QC, specific units, and bad luck -- but even a 0.001% risk of something happening is a big deal.

The quick P250 -> P320 without really designing it properly does seem to have been a mistake, though.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#287

Post by Thorrez »

ml-anon wrote: post #280

How is this in anyway tech/HN related?

A lot of the discussion in the comments here is about gun mechanisms.

This could be considered gun tech. Note that HN doesn't require posts to be tech related, although this post might be a little borderline regarding the "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic." guideline.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#288

Post by [deleted] »

favorited wrote: post #249
zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure my dad had a Beretta, but that was in the 90s, so that may have changed

The Sig P320 (M17/M18) is the successor to the Beretta 92 (M9) as the US military's standard service pistol. Glocks are the most common among law enforcement in the US these days. The FBI's service pistol is a Glock 19M. Glock claims that the Glock 22 is, "by far the most popular police service pistol in the United States," which surprises me because the 17 and 19 are the service handguns at most big cities, AFAIK.

[deleted]

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#289

Post by roughly »

> That campaign included a successful effort this year to secure a change in New Hampshire law that will protect Sig Sauer from future liability lawsuits regarding allegations the gun should come equipped with certain safety features.

If you want to know how we arrived at this particular moment in American history and society, this is a fine place to start.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#290

Post by sokoloff »

ivraatiems wrote: post #255
ummonk wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many pistols don't. It does lead to a higher risk of accidental discharges (that's how we got the term "glock leg"). That's also the argument that Sig made - that every unintended discharge was due to user error. The evidence is increasingly clear cut that this isn't the case, and the pistol can go off on its own when jostled while properly holstered, but Sig persists in trying to claim the pistol is safe and blame t…

"that every unintended discharge was due to user error" -- Sig is doing a fantastic job of making it clear that that's false (as you say). The real statement is "every unintended discharge on a known-safe gun is due to user error." I would believe that all unintended discharges on, say, a Glock 17 are user error. I no longer can believe that of Sigs. And it's like brakes on a car. If it fails for even one person one…

I’d wager that poorly maintained brakes fail and lead to a collision many hundreds of times per year. I think “unmodified and properly maintained”, neither firing mechanisms nor brakes should fail (and I think that’s what’s in question here).
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