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New Linux udisks flaw lets attackers get root on major Linux distros

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Re: New Linux udisks flaw lets attackers get root on major Linux distros

#281
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you weren't aware, containers aren't a security boundary. Things like bubblewrap are.

bubblewrap is actually worse - there are known escapes in there that haven't been fixed for years

It is the most widely used sandbox layer for pretty much everything. What escapes are you talking about? Are we supposed to take your word for it? Come on

Re: New Linux udisks flaw lets attackers get root on major Linux distros

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same software that wants to use namespaces for isolation will refuse to run as root.

Not true. Docker, for example. There's plenty of cases where you set up an isolation environment as root and then use it as non-root.

Yes, but actually no: usually setting up those namespaces is done through a privileged daemon or suid-root binaries. Both of those are prone to root exploits, which isn't as bad as a kernel exploit, but only a 'modprobe' away. Group membership in the 'docker' group is famous for being root-equivalent.

It isn't impossible to do things right, but in practice, things are usually done badly.

Re: New Linux udisks flaw lets attackers get root on major Linux distros

#283
post #87
post #54

udisks, not counting its dependencies, has 265,334 LoC. pmount, in contrast, has 19,978 LoC, or >13x less. sudo, another setuid binary with a lot of policy code, has 210 CVEs / 430.150 kLoC = ~0.5 CVE per kLoC. 57.5% of CVEs have a CVSS >= 7, so 0.5 * 0.575 = 0.2875 CVE7/kLoC. As a back-of-envelope estimate, udisks: 0.2875 CVE7/kLoC * 265.334 kLoC = ~76.28 critical CVEs; pmount: 0.2875 CVE7/kLoC * 19.9780 kLoC = ~5.7…

Ubuntu is switching to a Rust implementation of sudo: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Ubuntu-25.10-sudo-rs-Default Repo here: https://github.com/trifectatechfoundation/sudo-rs It's permissively licensed, unfortunately. Wonder why. It's not a library. But it ought to improve security in the long run.

I am surprised that no one mentioned run0 [0] in this thread

[0] - https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/devel/run0....

Re: New Linux udisks flaw lets attackers get root on major Linux distros

#284
post #2

As someone who has been using linux quite happily on the desktop for more than 20 years now, I have to say it remains an eternal experiment, feature wise as well as security wise.

Re:"Eternal experiment"... have you seen Windows 11? Or even 10? The devs can't keep their hands off of the thing, changing, breaking and fixing every component every few months.

This is the attitude that holds Linux back the most. Quick, what is the #1 priority of Linux? "Being better than Windows". Not being good, great, or even amazing? No, as long as it's 0.0001% better than Windows, it can be awful!

And people will say "Yeah, but it is amazing". Then why do so many people feel the need to defend it in terms of _being better than Windows_? Clearly they prioritize the perception of being better than Windows over being actually good, because otherwise they would defend it by pointing out how good it is. Are they all just weirdos, or have they subconsciously picked up on the real but unwritten culture of Linux?

Re: New Linux udisks flaw lets attackers get root on major Linux distros

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The context is that on a traditional Linux laptop/desktop you are in fact running everything as one user. Um. Have you ever run 'ps aux', guy? At minimum you're running everything as two users (root and your user account), and probably three to twenty more, depending on what you have installed. I know that on my desktop system ps axo user | sort -u | grep -v USER | wc -l returns 12. Even back in the late 1990s/earl…

are you linking to the fact that “useradd” exists to prove your point…? Lmfaoooo I’m assuming you have actually never ran a linux on your desktop. Lmaooooo. Yeah sure init runs as root, and maybe you have background services that run as some other user. BUT YOUR ACTUAL DESKTOP SESSION RUNS AS ONE USER. THIS INCLUDES YOUR BROWSER, YOUR PASSWORD MANAGER AND ALL YOUR OTHER SHIT! https://paste.centos.org/view/f8e5ec76 so…

> BUT YOUR ACTUAL DESKTOP SESSION RUNS AS ONE USER.

Yes, the things I personally run nearly always run under my user account. I've never said otherwise. I've also said that Android doesn't do things this way, and that that's a good thing. As I mentioned in my comment to TheDong: [0]

> [I]t's my understanding that Android does bother to fairly properly sandbox programs from each other... so an escalation to root would actually be a significant gain in access.

And my comment to you: [1]

> In this context, "single user system" means either "single human using the system", or "one human physically sat in front of the system's 'console' at one time". ... So, nearly 100% of "single user systems" of this type will have software running under different "user" accounts on the system, but still meet the definition, because those accounts are actually "machine" or "service" accounts.

And from that same comment:

> > Android security is tight

> Yep. That's what I said: "[I]t's my understanding that Android does bother to fairly properly sandbox programs from each other... so an escalation to root would actually be a significant gain in access."

Moving on.

> Yeah sure init runs as root, and maybe you have background services that run as some other user.

Correct. That's why I said:

> Most Linux systems don't run every single program as a separate Linux user. That doesn't mean that those systems are "in fact running everything as one user".

Before you succumb to another fit of rage, take a few deep breaths, review my previous comments, and notice my critique about how Android does things, as well as my commentary about how Android is also a "single-user system" (as TheDong was using the term), and how I think the term is pretty bad, but it's the one that's widely used.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44353534>

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44365898>

Re: New Linux udisks flaw lets attackers get root on major Linux distros

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name the additions.

You have already proven you don't understand the difference between kernel and userland hardening, why should i bother working for you, google it yourself.

I agree with you fully that mixing up kernel hardening and userspace hardening is one thing, but to suggest this little repo: https://github.com/Kicksecure/security-misc offers the same level of kernel hardening as grsecurity is probably the funniest thing I've read today.

To start with, some of the protections in grsecurity (specifically PaX) offer protections that apply to userspace - specifically MPROTECT and PAGEEXEC. Then there's the many kernel level protections: KERNEXEC The 3 different ASLR options (yes, vanilla linux has some watered down versions of these)

Then there's all the options that your little github repo has nothing the eqivilent of (to be fair vanilla linux HAS backported some of these):

  [ ] Sanitize all freed memory  
  [ ] Sanitize kernel stack  
  [ ] Prevent invalid userland pointer dereference  
  [ ] Prevent various kernel object reference counter overflows  
  [ ] Harden memory copies between kernel and userland  
  [ ] Automatically constify eligible static objects  
    [ ] Report code regions instrumented for writing to constified data  
  [ ] Automatically constify eligible allocated objects  
  [ ] Prevent various integer overflows in function size parameters  
    [ ] Increase coverage of size overflow checking  
    [ ] Log missing size overflow hash table entries  
  [ ] Free more kernel memory after init  
  [ ] Free more kernel memory after init (verbose mode)  
  [ ] Generate some entropy during boot and runtime  
  [ ] Prevent code reuse attacks  
    [ ] Forward edge defense (deterministic)  
        └─ Forward edge defense instrumentation method (callabort)  
    [ ] Backward edge defense (deterministic)  
    [ ] Backward edge defense (probabilistic)  
  [ ] Protect kernel stacks from each other  
    [ ] Report nolocal transformations  
  [ ] Automatically protect kernel code vulnerable to Spectre v1  
    [ ] Protect more kernel code vulnerable to Spectre v1  
    [ ] Automatically protect kernel code vulnerable to Spectre v4  
      [ ] Protect more kernel code vulnerable to Spectre v4  
    [ ] Report code found to be potentially vulnerable to Spectre v1/v4  
  [ ] Convert k\*alloc allocations into their own slabs  
    [ ] Report autoslab decisions  
  [ ] Report some potential NULL pointer dereferences
  
  [ ] Deny reading/writing to /dev/kmem, /dev/mem, and /dev/port  
  [ ] Disable privileged I/O  
  [ ] Randomize addresses of critical kernel objects  
  [ ] Harden BPF interpreter  
  [ ] Disable unprivileged PERF_EVENTS usage by default  
  [ ] Insert random gaps between thread stacks  
  [ ] Harden ASLR against information leaks and entropy reduction  
  [ ] Deter exploit bruteforcing  
  [ ] Hide kernel symbols  
  [ ] Randomize layout of sensitive kernel structures  
    [ ] Use cacheline-aware structure randomization  
  [ ] Active kernel exploit response
  
  [ ] Dmesg(8) restriction  
  [ ] Deter ptrace-based process snooping  
  [ ] Require read access to ptrace sensitive binaries  
  [ ] Enforce consistent multithreaded privileges  
  [ ] Disallow access to overly-permissive IPC objects  
  [ ] Disallow unprivileged use of command injection  
  [ ] Disable ability of suid root apps to execute unsafe files  
  [ ] Auto-enable Spectre mitigations for suid-like applications  
  [ ] Trusted Path Execution (TPE)
I've only grabbed half the options that grsecurity has available as options to turn on, but you get the idea. Later version of the grsecurity patch also offer kernseal - https://grsecurity.net/featureset/memory_corruption

So yea - to suggest your little github repo that tweaks a few kernel settings is anywhere near the massive security hardening feature set that grsecurity delivers is also, well, embarassing.

Re: New Linux udisks flaw lets attackers get root on major Linux distros

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's hard about it exactly? It's my daily driver. You can install KDE, too: https://forum.qubes-os.org/t/kde-changing-the-way-you-use-qu...

More power usage, need at least 64G of ram to even remotely use it as it's intended, no hardware acc by default, buggy templates, sleep is broken, uses X11 for display, dom0 is not updated as frequently as it should be and I hardly see any effort in documenting the fact that individual VMs's security matter too. That is not to say I hate Qubes. I think everyone, especially people dealing with sensitive data, should u…

> More power usage

True, it's the price for security.

> need at least 64G of ram to even remotely use it as it's intended

This is false. I'm using it on a 32G machine never meeting the limit. If you use minimal templates, you can easily work on a 8G machine.

> no hardware acc by default

They're working on on it: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/8552

> buggy templates

What are you even talking about? I'm using Qubes as my daily driver and don't have any problems with the templates.

> sleep is broken

It works flawlessly on my Librem 14.

> uses X11 for display

Why is this a problem? See also: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/3366

> dom0 is not updated as frequently as it should be

Should be for what? No software should be run in dom0, so its updates are not relevant: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/dom0-secure-updates/#reasons-fo... and https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/how-to-install-software-in-dom0...

> I hardly see any effort in documenting the fact that individual VMs's security matter too

https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/4233

Also, Kicksecure template is already available: https://forum.qubes-os.org/t/kicksecure-template-for-qubes-t...

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