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Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

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Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#281
post #254
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing! It's worthwhile to note that https://github.com/deepseek-ai/open-infra-index/blob/main/20... shows cost vs. theoretical income . They don't show 80% gross margins and there's probably a reason they don't share their actual gross margin. OpenAI is the easiest counterexample that proves inference is subsidized right now. They've taken $50B in investment; surpassed 400M WAUs ( https://www.reuters.com…

Thanks, I believe the API prices are not subsidized, and there's an entire section devoted to that. To recap: 1) pure compute providers (rather than companies providing both the model and the compute) can't really gain anything from subsidizing. That market is already commoditized and supply-limited. 2) there is no value to gaining paid API market share -- the market share isn't sticky, and there's no benefit to just…

Yes, I read your entire article and that section, hence my response. :)

1) Help me understand what you mean by “pure compute providers” here. Who are the pure compute providers and what are their financials including pricing?

2) I already responded to this - platform power is one compelling value gained from paid API market share.

3) If the frontier lab you’re talking about is DeepSeek, I’ve already responded to this as well, and you didn’t even concede the point that the 80% margin you cited is inaccurate given that it’s based on a “theoretical income”.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#282

[flagged]

What are you talking about? The entire library is 2600 lines. There are no 2500-line methods.

Yeah, my bad, I got lost and frustrated while scrolling endlessly and trying to keep track of what was part of what. Look, clearly you are happy with the results, so all good for you.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#283
post #43
post #10

This is exactly the direction I expect AI-assisted coding to go in. Not software engineers being kicked out and some business person pressing a few buttons to have a fully functional app (as is playing out in a lot of fantasies on LinkedIn & X), but rather experienced engineers using AI to generate bits of code and then meticulously reviewing and testing them. The million dollar (perhaps literally) question is – coul…

The million-dollar question is not whether you can review at the speed the model is coding. It is whether you can trust review alone to catch everything. If a robot assembles cars at lightning speed... but occasionally misaligns a bolt, and your only safeguard is a visual inspection afterward, some defects will roll off the assembly line. Human coders prevent many bugs by thinking during assembly.

And yet, doors still fall off airplanes without any AI in sight.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#284

Looking at all of these arguments and viewpoints really is something to witness. Congratulations Cloudflare, and thank you for showing that a pioneer, and leader in the internet security space can use the new methods of 'vibe coding' to build something that connects people in amazing ways, and that you can use these prompts, code, etc to help teach others to seek further in their exploration of programming developmen…

It literally says in the post it’s not “vibe coded”. That has a very specific meaning of not reviewing the code at all and accepting everything.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#286

Carefully reviewed greenfield project; I don’t think this is astonishing, and I very much love they recorded the prompts. Question is: will this work for non-greenfield projects as well? Usually 95% of work in a lifetime is not greenfield. Or will we throw away more and more code as we go, since AI will rewrite it, and we’ll probably introduce subtle bugs as we go?

> Question is: will this work for non-greenfield projects as well?

Depends on the project. Word on the street is the closer your project is to an archetypical React tutorial TODO App then you'll likely be pleased with the results. Whereas if your project is a WDK driver in Rust where every file is a minefield then you'll spend the next few evenings having to audit everything with a fine toothed comb.

> since AI will rewrite it

That depends if you believe in documentation-first or program-first definitions of a specification.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be a comment about the industrial revolution.

The industrial revolution's immediate effect was to radically lower lifespans and lengthen working hours. After all of those people suffered and died, lifespans gradually got long again, although working hours never went back to normal. You might think it was worth it now because you got an iphone, but they didn't get an iphone.

This could be a comment about the Neolithic Revolution

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be a comment about the industrial revolution.

The industrial revolution's immediate effect was to radically lower lifespans and lengthen working hours. After all of those people suffered and died, lifespans gradually got long again, although working hours never went back to normal. You might think it was worth it now because you got an iphone, but they didn't get an iphone.

Well, what they were doing before was sure as shit not going to get them an iPhone.

Just because a paradigm shift doesn't miraculously catapult us all into a post-scarcity economy overnight, that doesn't mean it's not an important milestone on a longer road.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#290
post #281
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I believe the API prices are not subsidized, and there's an entire section devoted to that. To recap: 1) pure compute providers (rather than companies providing both the model and the compute) can't really gain anything from subsidizing. That market is already commoditized and supply-limited. 2) there is no value to gaining paid API market share -- the market share isn't sticky, and there's no benefit to just…

Yes, I read your entire article and that section, hence my response. :) 1) Help me understand what you mean by “pure compute providers” here. Who are the pure compute providers and what are their financials including pricing? 2) I already responded to this - platform power is one compelling value gained from paid API market share. 3) If the frontier lab you’re talking about is DeepSeek, I’ve already responded to this…

1) Any companies that host APIs using open-weights models (LLama, Gemma, Deepseek, etc) in exchange for money. There's a lot of them around, at different scales and different parts of a hosting provider's lifecycle. Check for example the Openrouter page for any open-weights model for hosters of that model with price data.

2) (API) platform power having no value in this space has been demonstrated repeatedly. There are no network effects, because you can't use the user data to improve models. There is no lock-in, as the models are easy to substitute due to how incredibly generic the interface is. There is no loyalty, the users will jump ship instantly when better models are released. There is no purchasing power from having more scale, the primary supplier (Nvidia) isn't giving volume discounts and is actually giving preferential allocations to smaller hosting providers to fragment the market as much as possible.

Did you have some other form of platform power in mind?

3) I did not concede that point because I don't think it's relevant. They provide the exact data for their R1 inference economics:

- The cost per node: a 8*H800 node costs $16/hour=$0.0045/s to run (rental price, so that covers capex + opex).

- The throughput per node: Given their traffic mix, a single node will process 75k/s input tokens and generate 15k/s output tokens.

- Pricing ($0.35/1M input when weighing for cache hit/miss, $2.2/1M output)

- From which it follows that the per-node revenue is $0.35/(1M/75k/s) = $0.026/s for input, and $2.2/(1M/15k/s)=$0.033/s for output. That's $0.06/s in revenue, substantially higher than the cost of revenue.

Like, that just is what the economics of paid R1 inference are (there being V3 in the mix doesn't matter, they're the same parameter count). Inference is really, really cheap both in absolute cost/token terms and relative to the prices people are willing to pay.

Their aggregate margins are different, and we don't know how different, because here too they choose to also provide free service with no ads. But that too is a choice. If they just stopped doing that and rented fewer GPUs, their margins would be very lucrative. (Not as high as the computation suggests since the unpaid traffic allows them to batch more efficiently, but hat's not going to make a 5x difference.)

But fair enough, it might be cleaner to use the straight cost per token data rather than add the indirection of margins. Either way, it seems clear that API pricing is not subsidized.

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