Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

politico.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 348 posts

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#281

Post by WalterBright »

hermitcrab wrote: post #5

Good for Germany, but it is all too rare to see bad corporate behaviour punished like this. Steal £10k from a company, and you will probably go to prison for a long time. Start a company and steal billions from your customers and/or the tax payer, and you will probably get away with it. I believe Iceland was the only country to jail bankers after the 2008 banking disaster. We are still waiting for the British governm…

Sam Bankster-Fraud is currently sitting in jail, and Madoff died in jail. Elizabeth Holmes is sitting in jail, too.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#282

Post by WalterBright »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #216
Brian_K_White wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a pretty different concept being expressed by that one. The others are about getting away with something by just making the crime big enough that it's evaluated and handled in a totally different arena. The bank can still destroy the rest of your life, so you didn't get away with anything (setting aside bankrupcy and how you can actually usually start over, and that may or may not be all that terrible…

that's really not what it means, it means that if you owe the bank enough money (which is probably more than 100 million nowadays for any significant bank) then it is you in the position of power in relation to the bank, when the bank comes and says hey we need the money sure you have the "problem" that you need to pay it, but let's say you can pay it no sweat, but you'd rather not because reasons so you say hmm, I t…

> If you owe the bank enough money, you have the power in the relationship in most cases.

If you have any assets, the bank can take them from you.

The thing about renegotiating a loan is you don't have enough assets, but if the bank takes what you do have, you will never be able to repay the loan. I.e. the bank stands to recover more if you are successful than if you are bankrupt.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#283

Post by candiddevmike »

WalterBright wrote: post #281
hermitcrab wrote: post #5

Good for Germany, but it is all too rare to see bad corporate behaviour punished like this. Steal £10k from a company, and you will probably go to prison for a long time. Start a company and steal billions from your customers and/or the tax payer, and you will probably get away with it. I believe Iceland was the only country to jail bankers after the 2008 banking disaster. We are still waiting for the British governm…

Sam Bankster-Fraud is currently sitting in jail, and Madoff died in jail. Elizabeth Holmes is sitting in jail, too.

They stole from rich and powerful people. Rick Scott was the CEO of a company that committed the largest Medicare fraud to date and never saw prison time.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#284

Post by WalterBright »

Gud wrote: post #177
paganel wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t wage modern war without diesel engines, those trucks won’t drive themselves close to the front-lines (and, no, electric-powered trucks in times of war are a terrible idea, and the ones powered by gasoline are a lot less efficient and don’t provide the same torque numbers).

Why would electric trucks be a terrible idea in war time?

I'm not a tank expert, but my impression of Wehrmacht tanks vs Soviet tanks is the Wehrmacht tanks used aviation engines. Aviation engines are light and powerful, but don't have much life, were finicky, and require aviation gas. Soviet tanks were simple and used any liquid that would burn.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#287

Post by s1artibartfast »

triceratops wrote: post #147
teruakohatu wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be unlikely (not impossible) that board members would be briefed about ongoing criminal behaviour, and certainly not something so deep into operations as how the ECU is being programmed. Can a board member be reasonably responsible for the actions of tens of thousands of employees if they have not explicitly enabled or condoned criminal behaviour? The person that would benefit the most would be a senior exec…

They should at least be barred from being board members for a certain period of time.

Why, if they did nothing wrong and had no knowledge of anything illegal?

It is extremely rare to see that kind of prosecution in western countries (US or EU).

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#288

Post by 7bit »

GuB-42 wrote: post #243
hermitcrab wrote: post #5

Good for Germany, but it is all too rare to see bad corporate behaviour punished like this. Steal £10k from a company, and you will probably go to prison for a long time. Start a company and steal billions from your customers and/or the tax payer, and you will probably get away with it. I believe Iceland was the only country to jail bankers after the 2008 banking disaster. We are still waiting for the British governm…

And I think there is a good reason for that. When a company steals billions from customers, the entire company is responsible, and the entire company profits from the crime. So why single out a few executives? Everyone shall be punished: the CEO of course, but also every employee, every shareholder. You have a single VW stock, you are responsible too. So, how do you punish everyone fairly? By fining the company for a…

We should also include neighbours of the CEO and the employees as they have also just watched as their neighbours committed these crimes. As well as the bus driver who enabled them to commit these crimes in the first place by driving the to the crime scene!

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#289

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

paganel wrote: post #224
joker99 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valid points you’re making. Let me make a counter point: as a German, I’ve seen tanks on 5/6 occasions in my life, never using their own engines. But at the same time, I’ve seen hundreds of cars every day and breathed their emissions. It’s totally fine if tanks continue using diesel, but cars, trucks etc. not using diesel (or gas) engines anymore will have a measurable effect on my health

But then you'd also lose the capability of making diesel engines for good, and, again, they're not used only for tanks when it comes to warfare. Just look at the hole the US has dug for itself when it stopped producing civilian sea-ships, nowadays the cost of producing or even repairing its war-oriented sea-ships is way too high. And not only that, but it doesn't have the people with the knowhow to build those ships…

That doesn't make much sense as military technology typically comes first before any civilian application. Also, it would imply that we should already have lost the capability of making tank tracks as civilian vehicles don't use them.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#290

Post by Doxin »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #287
triceratops wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should at least be barred from being board members for a certain period of time.

Why, if they did nothing wrong and had no knowledge of anything illegal? It is extremely rare to see that kind of prosecution in western countries (US or EU).

Because they should have known. They should have made it their business to know. Looking the other way on purpose should not be a valid legal defense.
Post reply on HN