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Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

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Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#281

Post by alpaca128 »

rcarr wrote: post #239
alpaca128 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the requirement to use a computer and maybe pay a cloud subscription in the long term more accessible than other kinds of art? Which individuals are gatekept exactly? Before you bring up disabled people (as often happens when the term accessibility is used), know that many of them are not happy to be used as a shield for this without ever being asked and would rather speak for themselves. I've tried AI image g…

Try and tell me that a single individual would have been able to create this 10 years ago on a normal salary: https://www.youtube.com/@NeuralViz It would have cost millions. Now one person can do it with a laptop and a few hundred dollars of credits a month. AI is 100% making filmmaking more accessible to creative people who otherwise would never have access to the kind of funding and networks required to realise the…

Since 10+ years ago various YT channels have been creating interesting content, sometimes on less than a normal salary, filmed with a phone and with one person acting for three characters at once. And imho they (fortunately) won't disappear if what you linked is representative for what AI enables.

None of the videos I've clicked on required AI for the content to be good, and some of the randomness has no real reason to be there.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#282

Post by Clamchop »

alpaca128 wrote: post #276
Clamchop wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a pretty standard argument that creating artworks should or must require the hardship of developing the skill to bring vision into reality, or paying someone who can. That can be debated, but the position is textbook gatekeeping. Other disapproval comes from different emotional places: a retreading of ludditism borne out of job insecurity, criticism of a dystopia where we've automated away the creative experi…

Gatekeeping means restricting power or opportunities. Is it gatekeeping when a skill can be learned for free, and on top is also optional? Is it also gatekeeping to forbid students from using ChatGPT for homework because it would force them to go through the hardship of earning an education? I have seen what 99% of people are doing with this "clear and present value". Turns out when you give people a button to print…

I stated exactly what the enumeration of arguments that I know of are and which one is gatekeeping. (It's still the first one, devaluing or dismissing work out of hand if AI was involved, regardless of other merit.)

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#283

Post by [deleted] »

teitoklien wrote: post #180
gloosx wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your focus is to solve the problem, then it makes sense to treat the process as secondary. The tools are just means to an end. This view also aligns with how generative AI is marketed – it's a way to accelerate realization, not a way to focus on the act of crafting. That said, outcome-first thinking does run the risk of disconnection, and our current culture is all about disconnection.

Even the process is more democratized now, Want to learn coding ? Build out your app idea first with replit -> Then export the codebase into your computer -> Run claude code on it and ask it to scan all the files and describe the tech stack to you and how it operates while giving you all the major components you need to learn to understand it with youtube channel and book recommendations for each topic + work exercis…

[deleted]

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#284

Post by [deleted] »

teitoklien wrote: post #180
gloosx wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your focus is to solve the problem, then it makes sense to treat the process as secondary. The tools are just means to an end. This view also aligns with how generative AI is marketed – it's a way to accelerate realization, not a way to focus on the act of crafting. That said, outcome-first thinking does run the risk of disconnection, and our current culture is all about disconnection.

Even the process is more democratized now, Want to learn coding ? Build out your app idea first with replit -> Then export the codebase into your computer -> Run claude code on it and ask it to scan all the files and describe the tech stack to you and how it operates while giving you all the major components you need to learn to understand it with youtube channel and book recommendations for each topic + work exercis…

[deleted]

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#285

Post by dragonwriter »

alpaca128 wrote: post #138
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of gatekeeping I see when this topic is brought is outstanding! Why can't people be happy that more individuals would be soon able to create freely in a more accessible way? Personally I can't wait to see the new creative doors ai will open for us!

How is the requirement to use a computer and maybe pay a cloud subscription in the long term more accessible than other kinds of art? Which individuals are gatekept exactly? Before you bring up disabled people (as often happens when the term accessibility is used), know that many of them are not happy to be used as a shield for this without ever being asked and would rather speak for themselves. I've tried AI image g…

> How is the requirement to use a computer and maybe pay a cloud subscription in the long term more accessible than other kinds of art?

Accessibility -- and I don't mean this in the sense particular to disability -- is highly personal; its not so much that it is more accessible, as that it is differentlly-accessible.

> I've tried AI image generation myself and was not impressed. It doesn't let me create freely, it limits me and constantly gravitates towards typical patterns seen in training data. As it completely takes over the actual creation process there is no direct control over the small decisions, which wastes time.

No offense, but you've only tried the most basic form of AI image generation -- probably something like pure text-to-image -- if that's what you are finding. Sure, that's definitiely what the median person doing AI image gen does, dumping a prompt in ChatGPT or Midjourney or whatever. But its not all that AI image generation offers. You can have as much or as little control of the small (and large) decisions as you want when using AI image generation.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#286

Post by satvikpendem »

sigmaisaletter wrote: post #254
sandspar wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an expert so I may be wrong about all this. But my impression is that Pictorialist photography aped painting for 50 years. Photography only came into its own as a "photography native" art form with Stieglitz and people like that around ~1905. By that time, non-representational painting styles like Cubism had already sucked the remaining juice out of painting, with Duchamp's 1917 urinal perhaps deserving credi…

> Ask a person on the street who their favorite painting movements are and likely every name will be more than 100 years old I think you overestimate the publics art appreciation. The average answer will be a blank stare.

Well if you want to really be pedantic, they said every name, not average answer, so if most people reply with a blank state, that is still not in the set of every name, because they're not names. So the ones who actually do reply with a name are, as I agree with them, likely to be older than 100 years.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#287

Post by viraptor »

fragmede wrote: post #279
viraptor wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the reason to test the "not showing ..."? I've never seen anyone make that kind of request in real life. They ask for what they actually want instead. You'd ask for a clock showing 3:25 rather than "not 10:10". I mean, it's a fun edge case, but I'm practice - does it matter?

> I mean, it's a fun edge case, but I'm practice - does it matter? *in practice, not I'm practice. (I swear I have a point, I'm not being needlessly pedantic.) In English, in images, mistakes stick out. Thus negative prompts are used a lot for iterative image generation. Even when you're working with a human graphics designer, you may not know what exactly you want, but you know that you don't want (some aspect of) t…

> Thus negative prompts are used a lot for iterative image generation.

Are they still? The negative keywords were popular in SD era. The negative prompt was popular with later models in advanced tools. But modern iterations look different - the models capable of editing are perfectly fine with processing the previous image with a prompt "remove the elephant" or "make the clock show a different time". Are the negative parts in the initial prompt still actually used in iteration?

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#288

Post by yieldcrv »

onemoresoop wrote: post #226
yieldcrv wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, creatives and everyone else can always do something fulfilling for themselves just like before AI. They can struggle all they want and continue doing it for no capital. because that process is fulfilling to them.

Yes but how many will sign up for that? Im sure few will continue to do so but creativity will certainly take a big hit.

> Yes but how many will sign up for that? Im sure few will continue to do so but crea

It’s not important to me that they do.

> Im sure few will continue to do so but creativity will certainly take a big hit.

I’ve seen the workflows for AI generated films like https://youtu.be/x6aERZWaarM?si=J2VHYAHLL3og32Ix and I find it to be very creative. Its more interesting to me that this person would never have raised capital and tried to direct this, but this is much closer to what they wanted to create. I’m also entertained by it, whether I was judging it for generative AI issues or not.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#290

Post by Aurornis »

alpaca128 wrote: post #138
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of gatekeeping I see when this topic is brought is outstanding! Why can't people be happy that more individuals would be soon able to create freely in a more accessible way? Personally I can't wait to see the new creative doors ai will open for us!

How is the requirement to use a computer and maybe pay a cloud subscription in the long term more accessible than other kinds of art? Which individuals are gatekept exactly? Before you bring up disabled people (as often happens when the term accessibility is used), know that many of them are not happy to be used as a shield for this without ever being asked and would rather speak for themselves. I've tried AI image g…

> How is the requirement to use a computer and maybe pay a cloud subscription in the long term more accessible than other kinds of art?

Sometimes I feel like HN comments are working so hard to downplay AI that they’ve lost the plot.

It’s more accessible because you can accomplish amazing storytelling with prompts and a nominal amount of credits instead of spending years learning and honing the art.

Is it at the same level as a professional? No, but it’s more than good enough for someone who wants to tell a story.

Claiming that computer access is too high of a bar is really weird given that computers and phones (which can also operate these sites) are ubiquitous.

> Edit: another comment about a different meaning of accessibility: the flood of AI content makes real content less accessible.

No it does not. Not any more than another person signing up for YouTube makes any one channel less “accessible”. Everyone can still access the content the same.

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