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Thoughts on thinking

dcurt.is

281–290 of 459 posts

Re: Thoughts on thinking

#281
post #277

Homo sapience had a long period of its history when it was crucial to have a well developed body. Today we need to perform useless exercises just to maintain our bodies in somewhat acceptable shape. This might be applied to intellect as well. In the coming era of unnecessary intellectual power we might need to do thinking exercises as something that helps maintaining a healthful (and beautiful) mind though our core v…

Intellectual power is more and more necessary, on the input side if for no other requirement than to evaluate each piece of media and writing and figure how reliable it is. And on the output side to figure out how much of the LLM output you want to put out in the world under your name is BS.

Re: Thoughts on thinking

#282

I am somewhat in disbelief as my reaction to AI tools has been pretty much the exact opposite to the author’s. I had thousands of short notes, book ideas, etc. before AI, most of which were scattered in a notepad program. Since AI, I’ve made genuine, real progress on many of them, mostly by discussing the concepts with ChatGPT, planning outlines, creating research reading lists, considering angles I hadn’t considered…

What we need is a type of block chain that only records new lines of thought, and ascribes a kind of novelty index for concepts. That way researchers can stay on their intended side of the boundary of human knowledge, either well-trodden, averaged prior art or exploratory and theoretical. Then ambitious thinkers can gamify searching for truly new tokens.

Re: Thoughts on thinking

#283
Some might think that this is new. People who self-identify as makers. It’s not really new to me at all.[1]

- Why play music infront of anyone? People have Spotify. It will take me a ton of effort to learn one song. Meanwhile I will burden the others with having to politely listen and give feedback.

- Why keep learning instruments? There will be hundreds who are better than me at them at the “touch of a button”. Recurring joke: Y has inspired millions to pick up X and other millions to give up X.

- Why learn an intellectual field? There are hundreds of experts at the “touch of a button”. It would be better to defer to them. Let’s not “Dunning Kruger” myself.

- Why write? Look at the mountain of writings out there. What can I add to that? Rehashes of rehashes? A twentieth explanation on topic X?

- Why do anything that is not about improving or maintaining myself or my family? I can exercise, YouTube can’t do that for me. But what can I do for other people? Probably nothing, there are so many others out there and it will be impossible to “compete”.

- Why read about politics? See previous point. Experts.

- Why get involved in politics? See previous point. And I hear that democratic participation just ends up being populism.

I have read this sentiment before. And a counter-argument to that thinking. One article. One single article. I don’t find it in any mainstream space. You would probably find it in a certain academic corner.

There is no mainstream intellectual investigation of this that I know of. Because it’s by design. People are supposed to be passive, unfulfilled, narrowly focused (on their work and their immediate self and family) and dependent.

The antidote is a realization. One part is the realization that there is a rich inner life that is possible. Which is only possible by applying yourself. Like in writing, for example. Because you can write for yourself. Yes, you might say that we are just back to being narrowly focused on yourself and your family. But this realization might just be a start. Because you can start imagining the untapped potential of the inner mind. What if you journaled for a few weeks. If you just stopped taking in some of the inputs you habitually do. Then you see dormant inner resources coming back. Resources that were dormant because you thought you yourself and your abilities that were not narrowly about doing your professional job and your duties were... they were just not good enough to be cultivated.

But I think they are.

Then you realize that existence is not just about doing your job and doing your duties and in between that being a passive consumer or lackey, deferring everything else to the cream who has floated to the top. Every able-bodied moment can be imbued with meaningful action and movement, because you have innate abilities that are more than good enough to propel yourself forward, and in ninety-nine point nine percent of the cases it is irrelevant that you are not world-class or even county-class at any of it.

[1] But I haven’t really been bit by the AI thing to the point of not programming or thinking anymore. I will only let AI do things like write utility functions and things which I don’t have the brain capacity for, like parsing options in shell scrips.

Maybe because I don’t feel the need to be maximally productive—I was never productive to begin with.

Re: Thoughts on thinking

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To emphasize again part of the post above: "The aim of our creation is communication and mutual-transformation". When I write a poem in a birthday card for my wife to give her on her birthday, very little of the "meaning" that will be communicated to (and more importantly with ) her is really from some generic semantic interpretation of the tokens. Instead, almost all of the meaning will come from it being an actual…

Someone just the other day told me about how they used to have a group WhatsApp where they’d share these hand made memes. Just a bunch of guys photoshopping dumb stuff. It went on for years. One day one of them discovers AI and post anything made with AI - initially it’s great, it’s much better quality than what they could photoshop. Everyone jumps on board. But after a day or so, the joke is over. The love has gone.…

Oh yeah this is exactly how my group chats went. We still can post some good (in our context) memes and have fun, but not like an avalanche of poorly filtered slop. A joke for a group can still be crafted via an LLM when used judiciously and as intentionally as part of the bit. But by judicious it's important that the human is the one doing the sending and in the right moment, and so the human is still the one communicating.

When WhatsApp originally inserted their AI bot in the chats, it got very annoying very quickly and we agreed to all never invoke it again. It's just a generative spam machine without the curation.

Re: Thoughts on thinking

#285
There is going to be anxiety over losing any toolset. It just sucks that this time it's the human experience.

Sincerely though you have to do it for you. The product will be whatever the widget is but you can't treat your experience that coldly. None of us can. That's why everyone is so bonkers right now.

Our memes in a memetic sense are being frustrated and we in turn are being frustrated. I mean that mechanically we are frustrated but if you feel a certain way about that it's probably because this is going to also feel frustrating when the subject being frustrated is our creative aspirations. I don't know about you but that's kind of why I get out of bed to do this thing called life.

There is also a certain level of dread that an agent can be spun up to replace anyone. Makes you wonder what need feckless people might need for all this meat when a physical labor force can be replaced by robots and a mental one with AI and you can combine those forces seamlessly. Existential dread everyday on this scale is a chaos to say the least.

I know this is very dour but that's because this is very dour.

Re: Thoughts on thinking

#286

I am somewhat in disbelief as my reaction to AI tools has been pretty much the exact opposite to the author’s. I had thousands of short notes, book ideas, etc. before AI, most of which were scattered in a notepad program. Since AI, I’ve made genuine, real progress on many of them, mostly by discussing the concepts with ChatGPT, planning outlines, creating research reading lists, considering angles I hadn’t considered…

What we need is a type of block chain that only records new lines of thought, and ascribes a kind of novelty index for concepts. That way researchers can stay on their intended side of the boundary of human knowledge, either well-trodden, averaged prior art or exploratory and theoretical. Then ambitious thinkers can gamify searching for truly new tokens.

The publication process seems to already basically function this way, no? Whether through books, academic papers, or even just a blog post. If you publish something first online and it gets indexed, that is the best we can probably do - at least while human thoughts are still stuck in human heads.

Re: Thoughts on thinking

#287
That first paragraph is really sad to me. I can't imagine believing that my own thoughts aren't worthwhile because "an LLM will think up a better version of anything I think." Jesus. I can't say I have ever felt that way for even a second.

Re: Thoughts on thinking

#288

I think we are going to be seeing a vast partitioning in society in the next months and years. The process of forming expressions just is the process of conceptual and rational articulation (as per Brandom). Those who misunderstand this -- believing that concepts are ready made, then encoded and decoded from permutations of tokens, or, worse, who have no room to think of reasoning or conceptualization at all -- they…

I've personally noticed this as a big trend. For example, I had become more and more reliant on my GPS in the car. I've not really been the outer control loop of the vehicle. An automated system tells me what to do. I recently got a running watch. It suggests workouts that will help me improve my speed (which honestly I don't even care about!). If you turn it on it will blare at you if you're going too fast or too sl…

For GPS, I start by looking at the overall route, and compare with potential alternatives. Then during the driving the GPS just manages the local details, I still have some understanding and agency over where to go and how to get there.

Re: Thoughts on thinking

#290
post #277

Homo sapience had a long period of its history when it was crucial to have a well developed body. Today we need to perform useless exercises just to maintain our bodies in somewhat acceptable shape. This might be applied to intellect as well. In the coming era of unnecessary intellectual power we might need to do thinking exercises as something that helps maintaining a healthful (and beautiful) mind though our core v…

Video games come to mind
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