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Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#281

Post by layer8 »

saurik wrote: post #270
layer8 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple’s wording is “apps on the United States storefront” [0], so apps on the US app store only. [0] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#pay...

Right. We get that's what's Apple is doing, but the question is whether it satisfies the injunction. FWIW, I will claim it does not: it should cover--at least for any developer in the United States--any app published by any Apple-affiliated entity, anywhere, and certainly covers Apple's centrally managed global store.

I’m no expert, but it may be the case that if you place an app on, say, the EU app store, you’re technically doing business in the EU, not the US, and are therefore subject to EU law, not US law. Wasn’t that the case with the DSA requirements? https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/18/apple-purges-apps-without-...

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#282

Post by eptcyka »

JustExAWS wrote: post #10
dartharva wrote: post #5

In the same article: 3.1.1 In-App Purchase: If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. Apps may not use their own mechanisms to unlock content or functionality, such as license keys, augmented reality markers, QR codes, cryptocurrencies and cr…

You’ll have to excuse me for not mourning for game developers having to pay 30% for purchases of loot boxes and other pay to win mechanics. It came out in the original Epic trial that this is where 90% of in app revenue comes from.

It is everyone, not just loot boxes. Apple could put an end to lootboxes if they wanted to.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#283

Post by bigyabai »

zackify wrote: post #112

Crazy. I thought hackernews didn’t care because this happened yesterday and I never saw anything! We’re updating our app in a couple days this will save a LOT of money. We will kick users out to web and pass a JWT in the url with a short lifespan to log the user in on web and then prompt for Apple Pay or credit card. Then a link back to our app’s deep link

> I thought hackernews didn’t care because this happened yesterday and I never saw anything!

This is a bit of an "egg-on-face" moment for the community that has relentlessly defended Apple's righteousness.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#284

Post by saurik »

layer8 wrote: post #281
saurik wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. We get that's what's Apple is doing, but the question is whether it satisfies the injunction. FWIW, I will claim it does not: it should cover--at least for any developer in the United States--any app published by any Apple-affiliated entity, anywhere, and certainly covers Apple's centrally managed global store.

I’m no expert, but it may be the case that if you place an app on, say, the EU app store, you’re technically doing business in the EU, not the US, and are therefore subject to EU law, not US law. Wasn’t that the case with the DSA requirements? https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/18/apple-purges-apps-without-...

Even if I accept Apple's definition that such a developer is directly doing business in the EU, the injunction applies to "Apple, Inc. and its officers, agents, servants, employees, and any person in active concert or participation with them", which certainly includes the direction they provide to the people they hire to operate their storefronts in other countries (particularly so as this is, as I stated, a centrally-managed system run out of the United States).

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#285

Post by stetrain »

perdomon wrote: post #256

The difference between the quality of software in the Apple App Store versus the Google Play Store is dramatic, in my opinion. Apple has succeeded in increasing the bar to entry and standards to the point where a lot of the blatant trash/advertising malware present in the Google Play Store is caught by the net of the App Store submission process (and the $99 developer fee). I do believe the court when they say that A…

They could absolutely maintain that quality of software in the App Store while also allowing people to install software from other sources.

By fighting so hard to keep the App Store as the sole distribution mechanism for iPhone software Apple has invited these compromises on themselves.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#286

Post by layer8 »

protimewaster wrote: post #29
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? I'd personally never go somewhere else to pay for your subscription or content. Maybe if you were a big time player that didn't have an appealing alternative, like Netflix. But for the average app, like Planta or Breethe, I'm just switching to an app that has an in app purchase if yours doesn't. Semi-related, but I also always pick an app that has family sharing of subscription over one that doesn't too (Hea…

The wording here seems, to me, to have some silly limitations. For example, there are apps I have thought would make a nice gift for a friend before, and the easiest way to do this is to buy an unlock key and send it to them. But, with these rules, I guess the goal is that I have to send them a gift card instead? I'll just not bother and get them something else.

Apple has an integrated “gift this app” function in their app store. I’m not sure you can use it for in-app purchases, however.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#287

Post by reylas »

McGlockenshire wrote: post #271
reylas wrote: post #261

So, what keeps all app developers from charging 0 to "buy" the app from the store, then nickel and dime the user inside the app? This really feels like the beginning of things way worse.

If Apple was worried about this, they shouldn't have flaunted the court order in a way that made the judge say in the subsequent order that "this is an injunction, not a negotiation."

I understand what you are saying, but not what I am getting at. If you were a developer and had a choice between a "one-time fee" with Apple taking 30% vs "free to download" but redirect to an outside payment system, which one would you chose?

I am worried that now game companies are incentivized to abandon "initial purchase" games/apps and go the "loot-box, subscription" route.

Is this the final nail in the pay one time for games coffin?

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#288

Post by malone »

bsimpson wrote: post #204
StefanBatory wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Fortnite, skins are available to buy only sometimes. At a given time, you can buy like, 6-7 of them. If you want something that is not up, well, tough luck, it may never come back.

They also charge like $20 just to play as whatever licensed character in their game. If you wanna be able to play as Batman or Mr Meseeks or the dog from Adventure Time, that's $60 already.

They give a lot of characters/vbucks away for free. I have a whole list of skins (including the 3 you mentioned) and have never spent any actual money on fortnite.

I can't deny they've made a crazy amount of money from convincing teenage boys that it's cool to buy outfits and play virtual dress-up. But compared to the must-have items of my youth at least you aren't excluded if you have no money.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#289

Post by caseyy »

crazygringo wrote: post #163
caseyy wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? The app can use Apple's system and its own. If the developers don't want your money on terms fair to you, you don't buy. Some things are relatively easy to refund via Apple, but not all of them. It's nearly impossible to get a refund for in-app purchases, gift cards, balance top-ups, auto-renewing subscriptions, redeemed digital goods, and so on. Coming from the EU, if I paid for these things direct…

You're missing the part where app developers take away the Apple payment option because that way they can make it much harder to do refunds, cancel subscriptions, etc. That decreases trust. Period. You're claiming this is about adding choices, but it's not. App developers will be removing the choice for consumers to pay via Apple. Saying it's my choice to then not use the app is disingenuous. When a good option is re…

Please re-read the final paragraph of my comment.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#290

Post by nottorp »

archerx wrote: post #257
nottorp wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that the entities that forced Apple to be more open are free to play peddlers... > has been a gold standard for F2P monetization Every F2P game is the same. They waste your time until you buy IAPs out of boredom. What gold standard?

Not true, you can enjoy rocket league fully without buying anything.

"buy IAPs out of boredom". Because they keep you "engaged" doing the same thing forever.
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