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FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#281

Post by openasocket »

kemayo wrote: post #119
openasocket wrote: post #62

At the moment we don't have a lot of the facts. All we seem to have at this moment is a (since deleted?) post from the head of the FBI. There's a ton of context that is missing. Like what does "intentionally misdirecting" mean? Does that mean saying "he went that way" when he really went in the opposite direction? Does it mean not answering questions about this person, or being obtuse? I'd also like to know more of t…

Article has been updated with more context in recent minutes: > ICE agents arrived in the judge’s courtroom last Friday during a pre-trial hearing for Eduardo Flores Ruiz, a 30-year-old Mexican national who is facing misdemeanor battery charges in Wisconsin. > Dugan asked the agents to leave and speak to the circuit court’s chief judge, the Journal Sentinel reported. By the time they returned, Flores Ruiz had left. S…

Devil is always in the details. But judges have a ton of discretionary power, and in fact obligations to, maintain order in their courtroom. Someone who disrupts a hearing can be forcibly removed by the bailiffs, can be fined, and can even be found in contempt and summarily jailed.

I mean, what’s next? If a judge doesn’t sign off on a warrant because they don’t find probable cause, is that obstructing justice?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#282

Post by [deleted] »

whats_a_quasar wrote: post #255
Jtsummers wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I.e. the ICE agents showed up in the middle of a court proceeding, and the judge said they'd need to get permission from the chief judge before they could interrupt proceedings. The judge then didn't stop the defendant from leaving once the proceeding was done. Since there were multiple agents (the reports and Patel's post all say "agents" plural) they could have left one at the courtroom, or outside, rather than a…

To your question - A state judge cannot be required to hold someone on behalf of federal agents. That's federalism 101 and settled law. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/sanctuary--supremacy--h...

[deleted]

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#284

Post by rectang »

kemayo wrote: post #222
armchairhacker wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a case in Trump’s first term. I don’t condone the arrest, but to provide context: > In April [2019], [Shelley Joseph] and a court officer, Wesley MacGregor, were accused of allowing an immigrant to evade detention by arranging for him to sneak out the back door of a courthouse. The federal prosecutor in Boston took the highly unusual step of charging the judge with obstruction of justice… https://www…

I don't think we've got enough information to say how similar it is. That one sounds like it hung on Joseph actively helping the immigrant to take an unusual route out. If this judge just sent the agents off for their permission then wrapped things up normally and didn't get involved beyond that, I can't see this going anywhere. There's a lot of room for details-we-don't-yet-know to change that opinion, of course.

According to a "sources say" quote from a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article published two days ago:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2025/04/23/ice-...

> Sources say Dugan didn't hide the defendant and his attorney in a jury deliberation room, as other media have said. Rather, sources said, when ICE officials left to talk with the chief judge on the same floor, Dugan took the pair to a side door in the courtroom, directed them down a private hallway and into the public area on the 6th floor.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#285

Post by trealira »

Spivak wrote: post #233
trealira wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be quite blasé about the possibility of autocracy. But yes, there is a risk that Trump becomes a dictator and we're no longer a nation of laws. It depends on how people like us react to consolidations of power like this, or the illegal impoundment, or cases like Kilmar Abrego Garcia's. The law only matters insofar as we and our representatives can enforce it.

I'm not so much blasé about it, more just nihilistic because I am the last person with any kind of power to stop it. I imagine most of HN falls into this bucket of people with no real political power or influence. My realistic option if it happens is to move.

I'm also making plans contingency plans to move, but I may not be able to. Individually, no, we don't have power, but if everyone actually protested, we would - the Ukrainian revolution[1] started out as just mass protests (Euromaidan), for instance. The problem is that not enough of us are doing it, maybe because too many people are apathetic, uninformed, or don't take the possibility of autocracy seriously.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#287

Post by roughly »

pjc50 wrote: post #150
kemayo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I updated my post with new information from the updated article, and in the context of that I think you're pretty much right. It sounds like the judge basically said "you need permission to arrest someone in the middle of my hearing, go get it" and then didn't change anything about the process of their hearing while that permission was being obtained. This was definitely not them being helpful , but I'm incredibly do…

> incredibly doubtful that they could be successfully prosecuted for this. But they can be successfully arrested. You can beat the rap but not the ride, etc. The US is not yet at the level of dysfunction where jurisdiction is settled with gunfire, but ICE seem to be determined to move that closer.

ICE should’ve been reformed after Trump 1, but at this point we’re going to need to unwind the whole organization when we get that man out of power. They’ve shown themselves to be pretty disinterested in laws, democracy, etc.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#288

Post by JumpCrisscross »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #271
kemayo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article has been updated with more context in recent minutes: > ICE agents arrived in the judge’s courtroom last Friday during a pre-trial hearing for Eduardo Flores Ruiz, a 30-year-old Mexican national who is facing misdemeanor battery charges in Wisconsin. > Dugan asked the agents to leave and speak to the circuit court’s chief judge, the Journal Sentinel reported. By the time they returned, Flores Ruiz had left. S…

Or they walked into the hearing, sat in the back, and didn't interrupt it. These proceedings are almost always public, and theoretically you or I could walk in and sit quietly without violating any rules. Without knowing more, they could have just been waiting patiently for the hearing to end, and they would have arrested him outside the courtroom after he had left. In that case, what the judge did does amount to wil…

> they could have just been waiting patiently for the hearing to end, and they would have arrested him outside the courtroom after he had left

Still doesn’t justify arresting a judge in a court house. This is incredibly close to where taking up arms to secure the republic starts to make sense.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#289

Post by rolph »

dudeinjapan wrote: post #248
kemayo wrote: post #16

> He accused Dugan of “intentionally misdirecting” federal agents who arrived at the courthouse to detain an immigrant who was set to appear before her in an unrelated proceeding. It sounds like the arrest isn't because of any official act of the judge, but rather over them either not telling the ICE agents where the person was or giving them the wrong information about their location. There are some pretty broad law…

Umm… why didn’t the agents just wait patiently until the proceeding was done?

LEOs are trained to "be the one in control"

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#290

Post by dylan604 »

jandrese wrote: post #167
Jtsummers wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I.e. the ICE agents showed up in the middle of a court proceeding, and the judge said they'd need to get permission from the chief judge before they could interrupt proceedings. The judge then didn't stop the defendant from leaving once the proceeding was done. Since there were multiple agents (the reports and Patel's post all say "agents" plural) they could have left one at the courtroom, or outside, rather than a…

I wouldn't be surprised if the agents are required to stay together when doing deportation arrests because they don't know when an immigrant might revert to their demon form and incapacitate a lone officer.

while funny, there is a reason for federals coming in pairs so they can act as a witness for the other with things like lying to a federal officer.

this doesn't sound like the plural just meant 2 here, so it really does come across as Keystone Cops level of falling over themselves to not leave behind someone to keep an eye on their subject.

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