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Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move

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Re: Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move

#281

Post by InsideOutSanta »

qsi wrote: post #277
Renaud wrote: post #90

Synology isn't about the NAS hardware and OS. Once setup, it doesn't really matter as long as your config is reliable and fast, so there are many competitive options to move to. The killer feature for me is the app ecosystem. I have a very old 8-bay Synology NAS and have it setup in just a few clicks to backup my dropbox, my MS365 accounts, my Google business accounts, do redundant backup to external drive, backup im…

This is sad... I've been using Synology for a very long time (over 15 years?) and have been pretty happy with my experience. The one time I needed their tech support also left me with a good impression... This however is a deal breaker for me as I'd hate to be locked in to their drives for all the reasons in TFA but also as a matter of principle. I hope Synology will reconsider!

Yeah, same. I have had three Synology boxes over the last 20 or so years, and they have been super reliable, easy to use, and easy to update. The last one is important to me because I would, over time, add more disks and, when the drive bays were all full, replace smaller disks with larger ones.

The first one I bought is still in service at my parents' place, silently and reliably backing up their cloud files and laptops.

I was fully expecting to buy more in the future, but this is a dealbreaker. If a disk goes bad, I want to go to the local store, pick one up, and have the problem fixed half an hour later. I do not want to figure out where I can get approved disks, what sizes are available, how long it will take to ship them, etc.

I've recently installed Unraid on an old PC, and the experience has been surprisingly good. It's not as nice as a Synology, but it's not difficult, either. It's just a bit more work. I've also heard that HexOS plans to support heterogeneous disks, and I plan to check it out once that is available.

So that's the direction I'll be going in instead.

Re: Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move

#282

Post by timcobb »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #281
qsi wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sad... I've been using Synology for a very long time (over 15 years?) and have been pretty happy with my experience. The one time I needed their tech support also left me with a good impression... This however is a deal breaker for me as I'd hate to be locked in to their drives for all the reasons in TFA but also as a matter of principle. I hope Synology will reconsider!

Yeah, same. I have had three Synology boxes over the last 20 or so years, and they have been super reliable, easy to use, and easy to update. The last one is important to me because I would, over time, add more disks and, when the drive bays were all full, replace smaller disks with larger ones. The first one I bought is still in service at my parents' place, silently and reliably backing up their cloud files and lap…

> I have had three Synology boxes over the last 20 or so years

Sounds like this is the problem with Synology... How are they going to make money when their products are so good!

Re: Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move

#283

Post by p_ing »

bambax wrote: post #176
razakel wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>kept a list of drives to avoid based on user experience Well, that sounds like a great way to get sued.

Just do it in reverse: a list of drives that they have tested and can confirm work well; at the end of the list they just mention that they cannot recommend any other.

You would need to account for every drive firmware revision.

Re: Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move

#284

Post by jbverschoor »

Synology sells hardware and you get the software without yearly license.

Investors want bigger returns. They know they will not get away at this point by selling a monthly license. A large percentage would not buy anymore.

What other options do you have for recurring revenue? Cloud storage, but I don't think that's a great success.

And then... yes, harddisks. They are consumable devices with a limited lifespan. Label them as your own and charge a hefty fee.

The disks in a (larger) NAS setup are more than what the NAS costs. They want a piece of that pie by limitting your options.

No more syno for me in the future

Re: Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move

#285

Post by itiwaru »

gambiting wrote: post #82
kyrofa wrote: post #70

> When a drive fails, one of the key factors in data security is how fast an array can be rebuilt into a healthy status. Of course, Amazon is just one vendor, but they have the distribution to do same-day and early morning overnight parts to a large portion of the US. Even overnighting a drive that arrives by noon from another vendor would be slower to arrive than two of the four other options at Amazon. In a way thi…

>>You should have spare drives on hand. I've never heard of anyone doing that for a home nas. I have one and I don't keep spare drives purely because it's hard to justify the expense.

The drives I have obtained ahead of failure only after drives have been used past the 8 year mark are for a rebuild. I would hardly call them spares.

I did end up with a spare before at the 3 year mark but the bathtub curve of failure has held true and now that so-called spare is 6 years old, unused, too small of a drive, and so never planned to be used in any way.

The conventional wisdom is that you should not store drives that don't get spun up infrequently, so what does it mean to have spares unless you are spinning them up once a month and expecting them to last any longer once actually used?

Re: Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move

#286

Post by InsideOutSanta »

shantara wrote: post #276
Renaud wrote: post #90

Synology isn't about the NAS hardware and OS. Once setup, it doesn't really matter as long as your config is reliable and fast, so there are many competitive options to move to. The killer feature for me is the app ecosystem. I have a very old 8-bay Synology NAS and have it setup in just a few clicks to backup my dropbox, my MS365 accounts, my Google business accounts, do redundant backup to external drive, backup im…

I’m running two Synology NAS devices, and I wouldn’t consider their app ecosystem to be their strong point. I started by trying to take advantage of the built-in Synology apps when I first got my NAS, but quickly realized how limited they are. Their bi-directional synchronization solution is so slow and archaic compared Syncthing! And the same is true for most of their software offerings. At this point, I’m happy wit…

I would count supported third-party apps like SyncThing as part of the app ecosystem. You can add the SynoCommunity repository to your Synology and install SyncThing directly, which is pretty nice.

It's a bit more convenient than how other solutions, like Unraid, handle this, where you manually configure a Docker container.

Re: Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move

#287

Post by moooo99 »

spease wrote: post #225
franga2000 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great argument for selling drives, not for locking your devices down to practically require them

> That's a great argument for selling drives, not for locking your devices down to practically require them The counterargument is, people won’t listen and then blame Synology when their data is affected. At which point it may be too late for anything but attempting data recovery. Sufficiently nontechnical users may blame the visible product (the NAS) even if the issue is some nuance to the parts choice made by a tec…

> The counterargument is, people won’t listen and then blame Synology when their data is affected. At which point it may be too late for anything but attempting data recovery.

Is it though? Most (consumer) NAS systems are probably sold without the drives which are bough separately. When there is an issue with the drive and it breaks, I’m pretty sure most people technical enough to consider the need for a NAS would attribute that failure to the manufacturer of the drives, not to the manufacturer of the computer they put their drives into

Re: Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move

#288

Post by beaviskhan »

Shank wrote: post #275

I personally think that in 2025, you should treat the NAS as a purely storage product and buy your hardware from that perspective. TrueNAS or UniFi’s new NAS product fulfill that goal. From there, supplement your NAS with a Mac Mini or other mini-PC for storage-adjacent tasks. Synology’s whole business model (arguably QNAP’s too) depends on you wanting more drive bays than 2 and wanting to host apps and similar servi…

> The premium they ask is substantial. You can spec out a beefy Dell PowerEdge with a ton of drive bays for cheap and install TrueNAS, and you’ll likely be much happier.

Yeah, but then you have a PowerEdge with all the noise and heat that goes along with it. I have an old Synology 918 sitting on my desk that is so quiet I didn't notice when the AC adapter failed. I noticed only because my (docker-app-based) cloud backups failed and alerted me.

Unless Synology walks back this nonsense, I'll likely not buy another one, but I do think there is a place for this type of box in the world.

Re: Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move

#289

Post by horsawlarway »

timcobb wrote: post #282
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, same. I have had three Synology boxes over the last 20 or so years, and they have been super reliable, easy to use, and easy to update. The last one is important to me because I would, over time, add more disks and, when the drive bays were all full, replace smaller disks with larger ones. The first one I bought is still in service at my parents' place, silently and reliably backing up their cloud files and lap…

> I have had three Synology boxes over the last 20 or so years Sounds like this is the problem with Synology... How are they going to make money when their products are so good!

Honestly, seems like they got roughly one hardware sale to him every 6 years or so.

Which is along the same trend line I'm seeing for my purchases.

That's pretty solid for hardware sales.

My guess is that they've over invested in things like their "drive" office software suite, and don't know how to monetize it or recoup costs.

I like Synology, but locking me to their drives is a hard "no thanks" from me.

Next NAS won't be from them if that's their play...

Re: Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move

#290

Post by timcobb »

Shank wrote: post #275

I personally think that in 2025, you should treat the NAS as a purely storage product and buy your hardware from that perspective. TrueNAS or UniFi’s new NAS product fulfill that goal. From there, supplement your NAS with a Mac Mini or other mini-PC for storage-adjacent tasks. Synology’s whole business model (arguably QNAP’s too) depends on you wanting more drive bays than 2 and wanting to host apps and similar servi…

This is what I need to research, I don't understand why we need NAS hardware at all, aren't the controllers and drivers in an average box running Linux enough for the same software raid that Synology does?
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