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Googler... ex-Googler

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Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#281

Post by apwell23 »

Scandiravian wrote: post #229
apexalpha wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, as someone from Europe I've never experience anything else. Layoffs here are always done in conjunction with the unions. People are moved to different jobs, helped with training etc... Only in very critical jobs they'd walk you out immediately but then you still get the pay.

Having experienced layoffs in both US and EU companies, the difference is massive. In my experience there is very little respect for "the human" being laid off in US companies People literally would just disappear day to day. I've had several instances where I only found out a colleague had been fired because I tried to write them on Slack only to find that their account had been deactivated Personally I felt constan…

> In my experience there is very little respect for "the human" being laid off in US companies

its much easier to find another job in US because of this though.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#282

Post by ajb »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #181
abdj8 wrote: post #110

Layoffs are a difficult thing for employees and their managers. I have seen people (one was a VP of Engineering) escorted out of the building, sent in a cab to home along with a security guard (this was in India), not allowed access to computer or talk with other employees. But, recently have had a very different experience. The current company I work for announced 30% layoffs. The list was made public within one hou…

What happens if your company supports billions of dollars in economic output, and a few employees decides to go rogue and sabotage some systems that then causes an international loss of billions of dollars, and possibly property damages and loss of life? If you were the CEO, would you take criminal/financial responsibility for that?

There are companies that support billions of economic output in countries which require a notice period. If they thought it was a risk that they would be taken down be a rogue employee, they have the option of putting them on 'gardening leave' during the notice period. This is extremely rare; they know the risk is insignificant so they are more keen to get any remaining value from the relationship (work, handover).

In our industry and many others, being a professional and maintaining good relations with your ex -colleagues, who form your professional network, is much more valuable than any emotional satisfaction from screwing them over, even without the risk of going to prison.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#283

Post by eloisant »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #186
ricardobeat wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some perspective, the bulk of this is simply illegal in the Netherlands, likely other countries in the EU as well: - layoff plans must be communicated ahead of time. Minimum 30 days notice, usually much more - Needs to be negotiated with worker representatives (works council, syndicate if there is one) - LIFO principle for layoffs, newest employees are let go first. Stack ranking not possible - Any kind of discri…

Thank you for sharing this important information. What does a company in the Netherlands do when an employee is underperforming? Do they get "PIP'd" like Amazon? Then, eventually let go with some standard severance package?

I can't talk about the Netherlands but if it's like France: the process is very different in the case of layoffs, where you want to reduce the workforce for economical reasons (e.g. shrinking revenues), and firing an individual employee. In the first case employees are not let go on the basis of the performances.

Firing individual employees for performances or because they made a serious offense is a different completely process. Whether they get a severance package or not depends on the reason of the firing.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#284

Post by perching_aix »

apwell23 wrote: post #278
perching_aix wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Coping about being a europoor" definitely sounds like a fair assessment that isn't politically motivated at all, and is sure to improve the quality of discussion. /s

[flagged]

> is quality discussion for you?

If it was, why would I be evaluating whether you're improving it or not? Surely a discussion only needs improvement if it has room for it, right?

> edit: you are another coper europoor.

Strong words from someone who recurringly goes into US vs. EU discussions just to post inflammatory garbage. [0] [1] [2]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43417884

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43411189

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43374322

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#285

Post by ahtihn »

eloisant wrote: post #267
ignoramous wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I trusted them yesterday, I trust them today. The problem is, before the layoffs, the employee may have felt they had an obligation to do right by the company. Once they're fired, it may no longer be the case. Some may very well become spiteful, act on their vengeance, & seek immediate retribution. The risk posed by an employee going rouge is what most CEOs are playing for, especially as in GP's case, for a company…

In France you can't layoff people on the spot, there is a 3 months notice. And I've yet to hear about employees going rogue. Maybe in US laid off employees can go rogue because they're treated like shit in the process?

Notice doesn't mean they must be allowed to keep working. It just means they need to be paid.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#286

Post by gorbachev »

denkmoon wrote: post #202
neilv wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all . You're talking about douchebag companies. If I try to hire someone in the future, and I'm talking straight with a candidate, about how we do things and what we're looking for, and they just nod their head, like I'm going through BS rituals that your stereotypical MBA thinks is professional to say but not mean... I will be sad. And if, while they're BSing me, they're congratulating themselves on having "mast…

Which are the non douchebag companies?

Start by eliminating all publicy traded companies from the list, and you've increased the percentage of non douchebag company in your list by quite a bit.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#287

Post by InDubioProRubio »

The problem is often- a idealised view of the world, where merit and accomplishment is the deciding factor, meanwhile its all diplomacy, social networks and backstabbing at court. Then again, these "meritless" systems are parasitic on the meritocratic workers producing the actual value and progress.

The cooperate cruft grazes on blissfully unaware engineers. Which is why they should try to be poisonous to the cruft wherever they go.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#288

Post by ahtihn »

ajb wrote: post #282
Ferret7446 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if your company supports billions of dollars in economic output, and a few employees decides to go rogue and sabotage some systems that then causes an international loss of billions of dollars, and possibly property damages and loss of life? If you were the CEO, would you take criminal/financial responsibility for that?

There are companies that support billions of economic output in countries which require a notice period. If they thought it was a risk that they would be taken down be a rogue employee, they have the option of putting them on 'gardening leave' during the notice period. This is extremely rare; they know the risk is insignificant so they are more keen to get any remaining value from the relationship (work, handover). I…

> they have the option of putting them on 'gardening leave' during the notice period. This is extremely rare

That must depend on the country. In Switzerland it's standard that employees don't work during the notice period when they're laid off.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#289

Post by windward »

greesil wrote: post #59
hyperliner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even those in “upper management” are cogs.

Everybody responds to incentives. Not everyone is competent. And, the higher you go the less accountability there seems to be.

We pay a lot because we need these people who are capable of making tough decisions (copying everyone else by overhiring at a premium during low interest rates), they can't be kept accountable for their own mistakes like the rest of us (fired myopically as a sacrificial lamb during a down-market because investors demand executives copy everyone else (they're invested in everyone else))

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#290

Post by Strom »

whiplash451 wrote: post #177

« Relationships that took me years to cultivate… mostly going to be gone too » Why? What prevents you from spending time with your ex-colleagues?

Probably because most interactions were on company time. Because of course if the relationships were outside of work, then changing jobs would have little effect.
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