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After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

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Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#281
post #18

It’s wild how America is just complacent with the destruction of the federal government. We see all of these red flags across the agencies yet there’s minimal uproar. I have seen a few protests (50501, recently) but nothing that stops this wanton destruction. - $6.6T sell off in market due to Orange administration trade war in just _2 days_ - USAID decimated - US trade partners lost - Federal agency head count losses…

The only way we can do something is if these actions become deeply unpopular - which they currently aren’t, still about 43% of the population are totally onboard. All we can do is wait for the empire to tumble enough until people without empathy become personally affected and turn sour. My guess is it won’t take the full 4 years.

A problem is those people would then need to identify their dissatisfaction as a result of these haphazard cuts and policies, which will be directly contradicted by propaganda telling them this is actually proof we need to cut even more.

If the government services are being intentionally crippled so that people are unhappy with them then things are going exactly to plan and won't lead to any mass "realizations" of our mistakes.

Even if the current administration ISNT intentionally trying to cause harm and trauma (despite direct quotes posted in this thread saying they are) then the American people will end up with a choice to either cut the last bits of broken government or pay (way) more taxes and try to rebuild them.

I fear we will collectively pick the former and put our heads in the sand about the damage unregulated private companies will do when put in a position like that (like today's internet utilities, private power companies, the for-profit prison nightmare, health insurance companies denying 90% of claims using software they know is wrong, and the defense mega contractors).

I wonder how far it will go. These folks seem to like following the cliche of taking cautionary tales and reading them like manuals so maybe we'll have snowcrash style corporate 'burbs and private police armies soon.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#282
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DOGE is destroying entire fields. Maybe you built a career in museum curatorship or international development. You don't get paid much but its a decent living and you feel that you are enriching the world. You don't just wake up without a job. You wake up in a world where you need a totally new career.

There are lots of privately funded museums. Museums are not going to disappear. “International development” is mostly rich failsons with politically connected parents getting funneled taxpayer money via NGOs and/or a front for the CIA. Good riddance.

Citations needed, especially for your conspiracy theory about the CIA.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#283
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Don't worry, you've got six months of emergency fund and jobs come and go" and "good riddance I'm glad their careers are destroyed those lazy leeches" don't feel like they should be placed so close together. I personally believe that making mobile games is less valuable to the world than handing out TB meds, but that's just me.

Then you are free to spend your own money to hand out TB meds instead of buying mobile games. That’s your prerogative.

Do you believe that anti-social dispassion will get you far in life?

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#284
post #65

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

it works both ways. People quit without any notice all the time, and you can be fired for no reason and without notice. It’s not inhumane, it’s life. Your employer doesn’t owe you a job for life, and you don’t commit to your job for life.

Treating the relationship purely as transactional is anti-social. And compassion and consideration go a long way in creating more productive workplaces.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#285
post #44
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of protest do you imagine could stop Trump from being Trump? His own staff tried that for four years (2016-2020) and made next to no progress. Now he's surrounded himself with enablers, and the Dems won't even make a real effort to oppose the stuff he's doing.

The kind where he is forced to leave office and/or the country. Like sedition is a crime still so I'm not going to advocate for the downfall of the US government, but if you're asking "what kind of protest can stop Trump" then there are dozens of examples over the last twenty years to look at for "protests that result in the head of state no longer being the head of state." We're just not there, yet.

I agree - there's not much leverage that "we the people" have at this point, without the threat of a violent revolution.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#286
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it's completely destroying an incredibly valuable asset: The reputation of being a stable long-term employer! (This is possibly their corrupt intent.) The immediate "savings" reduced workforce (even assuming the same level of work gets done) can easily be obliterated by the long-term damage of needing to pay more to attract equally-qualified applicants away from the private sector. Some quick napkin-math just t…

Do we actually want "I just want a stable job" people being a significant part of the federal governments workforce? I generally wouldn't want those people to work for my company, so not sure why I'd want them to work in my government.

We had federal employee turn over every political cycle. It was horrible to the point the two parties got together and created the Federal Civil Service concept so that positions would have stability.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#287
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it works both ways. People quit without any notice all the time, and you can be fired for no reason and without notice. It’s not inhumane, it’s life. Your employer doesn’t owe you a job for life, and you don’t commit to your job for life.

That's actually not life in a lot of countries that aren't the United States. It's not a law of nature that you can be fired for no reason and no notice. We as a society make these laws.

Also we have social contract that says I won't steal food and other necessities if I can get employment and contribute to society.

So if many people can't get stable employment, where does that leave us?

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#288
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “If you're competent we won't fire you; our pockets are infinitely deep and we don't need to save money" I don’t believe this is an accurate description of how the government operates. It’s commonly repeated but it doesn’t align with personal experience or any evidence I have seen.

Clarification: doesn't align on the lack of pocket depth or on the ease of firing? My understanding for most of the bureaucracy was that there are some very solid policy guardrails set up around termination of bureaucrats; once you're in and have some time under your belt, only gross malfeasance gets you removed.

> Clarification: doesn't align on the lack of pocket depth or on the ease of firing?

Pocket depth. If the government actually had infinite money there wouldn't be so much gnashing of teeth about the budget. I don't see any assertion about the difficulty of firing so I can't respond to that.

> My understanding for most of the bureaucracy was that there are some very solid policy guardrails set up around termination of bureaucrats; once you're in and have some time under your belt, only gross malfeasance gets you removed.

Your understanding is commonly repeated but I'm beginning to question how true it is. "Bureaucrats" is a pejorative used to describe government workers and imply they don't do valuable work but I don't find it persuasive. I have no idea how easy or hard it is to fire someone in government or the amount of oversight involved in identifying abuse and incompetence.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#289
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most universally hated companies are also among the richest. Voting with your wallet is a myth. The entire point of a private company is to confiscate your income. They must charge you as much as they possibly can while providing you with as little as they can possibly get away with. Maybe you've even noticed prices going up while enshittification and shrinkflation increases.

The richest companies do the most business. If you have a billion transactions a year and 0.1% of the time something goes wrong and a customer is pissed off, that's a million pissed off people writing angry reviews online. That makes it seem like they are "universally hated", but you don't hear anything from the 99.9% of people who had perfectly fine, unremarkable experiences. In my lifetime I've gone from paying a f…

> If you have a billion transactions a year and 0.1% of the time something goes wrong and a customer is pissed off, that's a million pissed off people writing angry reviews online. That makes it seem like they are "universally hated"

The most hated companies tend to be the ones who have been causing harm for years if not decades and impacting vast numbers of people: Purdue Pharma, Nestlé, BP, Facebook, Monsanto, Comcast, Johnson & Johnson, 3M, etc. Several of the most hated companies have been directly responsible for killing millions of people. This isn't about "angry reviews online", sometimes it's about getting away with fraud or even murder.

> In my lifetime I've gone from paying a few cents to dollars per minute for phone calls (on the high end for international calls), to being able to have a video call with anyone, anywhere in the world for essentially free.

Your calls also used to be much more private, but now the software, devices, and services you use are spying on you and your communications to varying degrees in ways that would have been illegal when you had a landline. Call quality was also vastly better ("you can hear a pin drop" vs "can you hear me now")

> TVs have gotten bigger, lighter, and cheaper.

They also take multiple screenshots of every second to spy on what you're watching, they push ads on the screen even when you're playing video games or watching DVDs, and have microphones and camera collecting your personal data.

> Cars are more powerful, have better gas mileage, and are much safer.

Cars are also spying on everything you do and reporting your driving habits to your insurance company who will jack up your rates if you drive at night or take a corner too hard.

> New video games have consistently been around $50-$60 since the 1980s. I

You aren't counting the fact that parts of games (including parts important to the story) are often paywalled off and the cost of games can end up in the hundreds if not thousands of dollars if you include the DLC (for example the total cost of the Sims 4 is $1,235) or the games which require ongoing subscription costs, when in the 80s there were countless free player-made mods/maps/skins/expansions etc. Also video games are being used to build psychological profiles of you which then gets sold to data brokers and used to push ads at you (https://www.wired.com/story/video-games-data-privacy-artific...).

> The phone in my pocket is about 1000x more powerful than the top of the line desktop I couldn't afford in the 90s

The PC you had in the 90s was your computer. On your phone multiple third parties like your phone manufacturer, your carrier, and the OS maker can all access your phone remotely at any time, view/modify/add/delete files, applications, and settings without any notice to you at all. They have privileged levels of access to your device while you are left with a locked down account without full access to "your" device. Your computer in the 90s was designed to work for you, but your cell phone is designed to collect your personal data for other people.

> Food has more variety and is cheaper.

Food prices are at historic highs right now and that food is less healthy than it used to be as companies have been able to strip away regulations. The same scientists that the tobacco industry paid to lie to the public and government about the harms of smoking are now being employed by the food industry to convince the government that their additives are harmless (https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/04/17/400391693/ho...) and people are eating worse now than they did in the 1980s which shows in the amount of obesity and disease. I have to admit that we have much more variety than we did. That seems to be on the decline in recent years though and people are increasingly finding empty shelves at the stores.

Some things are better today than they used to be, but many things are actually much worse. Every new technology that does something convenient for you is also being used against you in some way.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of people who work are just in it for the money. You’re a very blessed individual if you’re doing it for the love of the job rather than because you have to pay the bills and buy food.

Citation needed, otherwise this sounds like psychological projection.

I don’t think you really need a citation for the fact that most people work to live rather than live to work.

I mean, that doesn’t mean that people can’t enjoy their job. But enjoying your job also doesn’t mean that you’d want to work if it wasn’t for the requirement to earn money.

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