HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere • Hacker News Board

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#281

Post by LtWorf » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:17 PM UTC

hnlmorg wrote: post #190

CharlieDigital wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the distinction matter?

In the case of GitHub, yeah. I don’t think a Microsoft source control “social network” would have taken off in the same way GitHub did. In fact when Microsoft purchased GitHub, quite a few people did leave and close their account. But GitHub already had such a monumental market lead that the departures ended up being a drop in the ocean. To be honest, I’m still waiting for the moment when Microsoft managed to fuck it…

I've left later on, when they started to impose 2FA and decided to scan all my code to train their AI.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#282

Post by koakuma-chan » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:20 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #151

I feel another way to look at it is that there is a growing divide between the "fronted/backend developer" view of an application and the "ops/networking" view - or put differently, HTTP2 and HTTP3 are not really "application layer" protocols anymore, they're more on the level of TCP and TLS and are perceived as such. As far as developers are concerned, we still live, have always lived and will always be living in a…

> because those are the abstractions that browser APIs and application servers still maintain

Because semantics are the same for every version.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#283

Post by lll-o-lll » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:23 PM UTC

eptcyka wrote: post #261

hu3 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are handful of handpicked twitter posts that are almost 3 years old, including the page itself. https://github.com/ghuntley/isdotnetopen The website doesn't even explain what they mean by open. Nor they explain why they think .NET is not open source.

Isn't `vsdbg` still distributed with an incredibly restrictive license? Doesn't sound all too open to me. Further, the twitter posts themselves are still relevant I believe. If someone took over my repo, I'd remember it 3 years later.

Yes, it is annoying. You can run VS Code on a PI and have an amazing Rust environment, or Zig, or any language. Except for .Net. Why MS? What is the benefit to your business to make .net suck without your closed sourced bits?

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#284

Post by charleslmunger » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:24 PM UTC

dadrian wrote: post #198

charleslmunger wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the cost of head-of-line blocking - one dropped TCP packet delays all HTTP/2 streams.

Yes, but head-of-line blocking is a different thing than round trips.

A dropped packet requires a retransmit which is effectively a round trip. Introducing shared fate by bundling many requests into a single TCP connection results in more requests being delayed by round trips per dropped packet.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#285

Post by koakuma-chan » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:25 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #157

I’m wondering why switching Node from OpenSSL to BoringSSL is considered hard? Is the JavaScript API exposing too many implementation details?

Bun uses BoringSSL. Bun is mostly compatible with Node.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#286

Post by lll-o-lll » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:28 PM UTC

ziml77 wrote: post #273

redeeman wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except if you want to use for example system.windows.forms, then "oh well different teams maintain that, nobody made it for linux!!!" "the core is open!!!" they clearly WANT applications written in .net not to be cross platform

It's not about different teams, it's that System.Windows.Forms is exactly what the namespace says. It's Windows Forms. It's a fairly thin wrapper over the Windows API. It's never going to be adapted to be cross-platform and isn't really something they've put any development work into for many years at this point. If you want a cross platform UI, use WPF with Avalonia. Or if you want something entirely from Microsoft…

JS is the only true cross-platform UI; sadly.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#287

Post by koakuma-chan » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 PM UTC

LoganDark wrote: post #254

I am still super disappointed about HTTP/3 in Rust. AFAICT there was a working HTTP/3 implementation in Rust over 6 years ago, but they (quinn crate) then literally yanked their entire version history from Cargo in order to wait for h3 which proceeded to take about three years (minus three days...) to even show up. I don't know the status of h3 today but that whole thing made me incredibly upset at the time. That hav…

There's also s2n-quic.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#288

Post by mixmastamyk » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:32 PM UTC

cebert wrote: post #272

mixmastamyk wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may be much less Linux-hostile today, but are still plenty user-hostile. Not to mention their lackadaisical security record.

Can you please highlight some examples of .NET’s lackadaisical security record? I’m curious for my own awareness.

Microsoft's. Consult your favorite search engine.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#289

Post by 0x457 » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:35 PM UTC

CharlieDigital wrote: post #91

0x457 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood SO as a measurement tool for anything, but people that can't read docs.

You have to have some metrics from somewhere to be able to understand which languages are being used. SO is one data point, but there are certainly others.

It tells me which languages have people asking questions about them. That metric is useful only if it's normalized around how many people are using that language, but we don't have that metric.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#290

Post by raggi » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:37 PM UTC

Everyone loves to tout TTFB numbers for quic, but there's very little widespread reporting on throughput, particularly analyzed for a large number / wide breadth of real world customers.

This matters because for a lot of operating systems, UDP buffers are still tuned to nearly 1990s levels, and are insufficient to overcome BDP challenges. For CDNs / edge deployment systems such as Cloudflare/Fastly, this may not be "statistically relevant" for their customers, in that they're close to "statistically most" of their customers, however for users in locations where these organizations do not have anywhere near such a good presence (APAC, the islands, etc), their experiences are getting _far worse_.