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Should managers still code?

theengineeringmanager.substack.com

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Re: Should managers still code?

#281

Post by apwell23 »

whstl wrote: post #105
apwell23 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, they also tend to start interfering in the solutions proposed by their team. It hard to stave off that temptation.

First: it's not "interference" if they are also part of the team. Second: If their ass is on the line, then they DO get a bigger say. They are paid for seeing potential problems, guiding the team, among other things.

How is manager's ass more on the line compared to an IC ?

Managers always have a higher job security compared to an IC from my experience.

Poor managers always use this dumb excuse of 'ass on line' to override good decisions by ICs with their own shitty decisions.

Re: Should managers still code?

#282

Post by shireboy »

This comes at a good time for me as I’m being threatened with a promotion from dev to management. But I have a question: I am being told that for SOX compliance, the manager approving a release can’t have any code in the release. Any devs or managers at publicly traded company that can tell me if this is bunk or not?

Re: Should managers still code?

#283

Post by vv_ »

There should be fewer layers of middle management and more individuals who genuinely understand why they are building the product and for whom. Success is ultimately defined by how effectively your product solves customer problems — everything else is secondary to that goal. I've had brilliant managers that never programmed in their entire lives and had horrible managers that had >10 year experience programming.

Re: Should managers still code?

#284

Post by cianuro_ »

windward wrote: post #271
tyre wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Code review, respect from engineers, directly feeling the pain points in our development process, I can commit small features strategically (like if a partner team isn't getting a lot of love but we're under-resourced), better partner pairing with engineers, balancing tech debt with new features, shipping directly to users builds empathy

>I can commit small features strategically (like if a partner team isn't getting a lot of love but we're under-resourced) Like a 10X (cost) intern?

Not sure if I read this wrong.

Are you making the assumption he, as an EM that codes, has the coding skills of an intern?

Re: Should managers still code?

#285

Post by apwell23 »

etamponi wrote: post #109

No. The amount of work that a manager has to handle to do their job right is incompatible with coding at a professional rate. If you have a manager that codes, then they won't have (enough) time to: - Write and design your packets (if in a corporation), or your career path (if in a smaller company) - Align with other teams, get consensus, shield you from politics beyond your level. - Make long term planning and makin…

> shield you from politics beyond your level.

ppl here always say "politics" is just learning to work with other people. So your manager is shieding you from working with other ppl ?

Re: Should managers still code?

#287

Post by windward »

cianuro_ wrote: post #284
windward wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can commit small features strategically (like if a partner team isn't getting a lot of love but we're under-resourced) Like a 10X (cost) intern?

Not sure if I read this wrong. Are you making the assumption he, as an EM that codes, has the coding skills of an intern?

Skill is irrelevant: the output is a small, low-priority feature.

Re: Should managers still code?

#288

Post by wink »

apwell23 wrote: post #285
etamponi wrote: post #109

No. The amount of work that a manager has to handle to do their job right is incompatible with coding at a professional rate. If you have a manager that codes, then they won't have (enough) time to: - Write and design your packets (if in a corporation), or your career path (if in a smaller company) - Align with other teams, get consensus, shield you from politics beyond your level. - Make long term planning and makin…

> shield you from politics beyond your level. ppl here always say "politics" is just learning to work with other people. So your manager is shieding you from working with other ppl ?

There are orgs where you ask another team for help unconditionally with your problem affecting the company and there are orgs where no one will help you, huge problems be damned and you can't even get your coworkers to cooperate without going to your (and their) boss.

That's not "working with other people" - that's office politics.

Re: Should managers still code?

#289

Post by windward »

__erik wrote: post #119

People never discuss company size along with this question. If you're at a giant company, the answer is likely no, there's enough politicing and paperwork where the highest impact thing to be done by a manager is likely not coding. If you're at a startup / smaller more nimble org in a big company, the answer is likely yes, if you've gotten to the point where you're a manager, in theory you're a very good engineer and…

A few comments also mention experience being out-of-date. I expect that's true in webdev, but an embedded C developer could take a 10 year break and still be using the same compiler version.

It varies a lot with context. Manager isn't even a well-defined term.

Re: Should managers still code?

#290

Post by naikrovek »

protocolture wrote: post #160

I cant work for someone who doesn't understand what I do. An unused sword rusts in its sheathe. I remember working for a gent years ago, who was stressed out that my output was so low. He declared "I started this business in my living room let me show you I can do any job in this building" He came to my workspace, where I had 20 servers stacked on my workbench. He looked at them. Attached a single power cord. And the…

> I can't work for someone who doesn't understand what I do.

Then you will never work for any human being. None of them will know what you do as well as you, unless they're doing it with you, and if that's the case, they're not really someone you work for.

Bosses become bosses because they want to stop doing the work. They want more money, and more respect, and they want to make decisions without needing to clean up their bad decisions. Bosses become bosses because they don't want to do what they've been doing.

There is no such thing as an engineer who does real work who is paid as much as a manager. They just don't exist in any company I have ever worked for. All managers of any pay grade automatically make more than any engineer of any pay grade, which creates a ceiling for engineers. Bosses become bosses because people are penalized for remaining engineers.

Management simply does not care about the experience and knowledge gained by engineers, and they value it less than a manager who is fresh out of college and who has zero experience with anything.

No, bosses should not code; they chose their path. Fuck 'em.

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