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U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#281

Post by master_crab »

rayiner wrote: post #228
bradhe wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing to see Russia win the Cold War—one we didn’t even know we were in. Their propaganda network is so strong that it took 3 weeks to go from “Russia is the enemy” to “eh, we have other problems” amongst the folks who…subscribe accordingly. Absolute masterclass in projecting power in the digital age.

There’s no “propaganda network.” America has a president that overthrew the GOP leadership by destroying Jeb Bush over the Iraq War: https://youtu.be/H4ThZcq1oJQ?si=ZawKMFFY3LmAhYMr . After the mistakes of the last two decades, there is little appetite in America to do anything in foreign countries americans can’t find on a map beyond empty virtue signaling.

Leaving aside the Iraq war discussion for a moment (that war, by the way, was America’s Pickett’s Charge, the high tide of the US) it’s amazing remembering how anti-Trump the Republican crowd was. A complete world of difference from today.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#282

Post by spiderfarmer »

ttoinou wrote: post #260
Gud wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Russia is run by a war mongering mafioso. That their economy is in shambles is expected.

Define shambles. Italy’s economy isn’t doing great either but there are ways to hide it

Russia will suffer the consequences of its brain drain and their aging population far after the overheated war economy cools down.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#283

Post by FirmwareBurner »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #278
bradhe wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing to see Russia win the Cold War—one we didn’t even know we were in. Their propaganda network is so strong that it took 3 weeks to go from “Russia is the enemy” to “eh, we have other problems” amongst the folks who…subscribe accordingly. Absolute masterclass in projecting power in the digital age.

US spends trillion in vietname,iraq,afghan etc while people can't afford housing,healthcare and living paycheck to paycheck its hard to care for other people when your basic needs is not fullfill

Thank you. This is what people with privilege don't get.

There are concentric circles of giving a fuck: first in the center is yourself, then your family, then your friends, then your community, then your city, then your country, then other countries on the planet.

It's impossible to get people to care about the outermost circle when their inner circles are not satisfied, so they won't be happy to see their elected officials being generous to foreigners with their own tax money.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#284

Post by rayiner »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #276
rayiner wrote: post #243

It seems like Ukraine is insisting on a “security guarantee.” Can someone explain how the U.S. providing a security guarantee wouldn’t increase the risk of american boots on the ground in Ukraine?

An actual lasting peace deal requires some sort of security guarantee, else it's not really a "peace deal", but rather something more like a capitulation. If US political leadership didn't have at least some solution for security in mind to begin with, then they wouldn't have been negotiating in good faith. That said, Security Guarantees don't necessarily directly mean boots on the ground, certainly not straight away…

That makes it seem like a security guarantee would risk deeper US involvement, as eventually happened with Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq I.

It seems to me that your logic would make the Iraq War quite defensible. Iraq had already invaded Kuwait. We had already guaranteed Kuwait’s security, so we would’ve had to send troops if Saddam invaded again. So if the CIA was correct that Saddam was rearming, there was a logic to deposing him now and resolving the situation on terms favorable to us, instead of reactively getting involved at a future date. Without the benefit of hindsight—knowing Saddam didn’t have WMDs—it seems like the only basis for opposing the Iraq War under your logic would have been to quibble about how much of an affirmative step Saddam had to take before our obligation to put boots on the ground kicked in.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#285

Post by rayiner »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #283
tonyhart7 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US spends trillion in vietname,iraq,afghan etc while people can't afford housing,healthcare and living paycheck to paycheck its hard to care for other people when your basic needs is not fullfill

Thank you. This is what people with privilege don't get. There are concentric circles of giving a fuck: first in the center is yourself, then your family, then your friends, then your community, then your city, then your country, then other countries on the planet. It's impossible to get people to care about the outermost circle when their inner circles are not satisfied, so they won't be happy to see their elected o…

It’s not even about “basic needs.” How much support is there in fat and happy Europe for putting boots on the ground? It sounds like UK and France would go it alone? https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/03/04/which-european...

And it’s not lost on me that both Starmer and Macron represent a minority of the electorate in their respective countries—having won due to a deeply fractured electorate.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#286

Post by gizzlon »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #271
gizzlon wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a lot of what-about-ism .. Of course we can and should criticize other countries, but here it's just a distraction. Do you really think the UK is as bad or worse then Russia? Because if not, what the fuck is your point?

> That's a lot of what-about-ism No those are facts. Simple as that. What is your contention exactly with what I said? > what the fuck is your point? Why the aggressiveness? We are all here to have a peaceful conversation. You may disagree with me and that is fine but we don't have to get at each other's throat. > Do you really think the UK is as bad or worse then Russia? You must have missed part of my comment if yo…

I didn't say they weren't facts. I said it's whatoboutism:

> Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about ...?") is a pejorative for the strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of a defense against the original accusation. > > The communication intent is often to distract from the content of a topic (red herring). The goal may also be to question the justification for criticism and the legitimacy, integrity, and fairness of the critic, which can take on the character of discrediting the criticism, which may or may not be justified https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

The topic is Russia dividing and conquering the USA from Europe and other nations. Not: are Europe perfectly living up to its stated humanist goals.

> Why the aggressiveness?

I guess it comes from this being a very common tactic to shut down any criticism and debate. Maybe you didn't mean to do that, in that case I'm sorry for assigning malignant intentions.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#287

Post by crazygringo »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #283
tonyhart7 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US spends trillion in vietname,iraq,afghan etc while people can't afford housing,healthcare and living paycheck to paycheck its hard to care for other people when your basic needs is not fullfill

Thank you. This is what people with privilege don't get. There are concentric circles of giving a fuck: first in the center is yourself, then your family, then your friends, then your community, then your city, then your country, then other countries on the planet. It's impossible to get people to care about the outermost circle when their inner circles are not satisfied, so they won't be happy to see their elected o…

Yet somehow the US is continuing to send tons of expensive military aid to Israel.

Which shows this isn't actually about the cost.

If this had anything to do with money and caring about domestic spending first, then you'd see aid to Israel cut off as well. Funny how that's not happening.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#288

Post by djhn »

csomar wrote: post #90
arunabha wrote: post #19

It would be one thing if there was a clear policy and adherence to it. In that case, you could discuss and reason in good faith. However there is no such indication that this decision is based on a considered policy. Trump's supporters would say that this is a result of not wanting the US being involved in foreign conflicts. That is a laudable goal, however that is not what is happening here. From the article > On Fr…

It is not a petty tantrum though it might look like one. You have to consider that the incumbents have won the US elections, that's not a small feat. What many people are missing is that if the US main challenger is China and beating Russia is a far thing, then it makes sense for the US to ally with Russia against China. For that, the US might need to give Russia something (some EU countries?) for this hustle and als…

> their own negligence.

The US took Ukraine’s nukes in exchange for safety guarantees.

The true extent of US commitment to european security has been clear to everyone for at least ten years.

Hell, the French nuclear programme was premised on the fact that Paris didn’t trust the US to defend France. Do you think the easternmost NATO states have built their military doctrine on blind trust in Uncle Sam?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#289

Post by kelipso »

josephstalinOk wrote: post #254
beretguy wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> If you believe that there is no NATO propaganda network that controls all of the western media, you are a victim of it.

Yep, the best propaganda is one you don't even think of as propaganda. It's just the truth.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#290

Post by GJim »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #158
GJim wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Putin has not been able to conquer the whole of Ukraine after 3 years, but somehow, suddenly, he will be able to conquer all of the Baltic states without breaking a sweat? Putin will find it much easier to wage war in Europe if Trump pulls out and takes the USA into isolationism (so abandoning the western democracies). And he will find it much easier to do this if he starts before Europe has a chance to re-arm. Tha…

> Putin will find it much easier to wage war in Europe if Trump pulls out and takes the USA into isolationism (so abandoning the western democracies). And he will find it much easier to do this if he starts before Europe has a chance to re-arm. It still does not explain how he is supposed to do that while he is bogged down in Ukraine. You answer doe not provide any shred of evidence that is what his plans are. You ar…

Nobody is going to wage a first strike nuclear war! Nuclear powers and MAD are irrelevant. It is conventional arms in Europe that are lacking, and Europe is re-arming as rapidly as possible for such a defence.

One must have their head in the sand to think otherwise.

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