Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

coindesk.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 383 posts

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#281

Post by TZubiri »

the_af wrote: post #279
TZubiri wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great take regarding 1 and 2. Regarding 3 it seems clear to me that he was not an insider, but he was scammed into spending his political capital and reputation. As a whole, it's classic cargo cult situation,imitating what a more powerful country is doing without understanding the nuances.

Milei's hardcore followers are now in an impossible situation: - They can continue claiming their all-knowing leader is an "expert" in everything under the sun. But this means he was an insider! And therefore, he committed a crime. Or, - They can claim he was duped in the silliest way possible. I mean, $LIBRA had every possible red flag and anyone with half a brain could tell it was a meme coin. So, that must mean Mi…

Or 3: he was ill advised from someone in his close circle, and their head will roll, but I don't see any minister that would take the fall, maybe a kid under the economy minister, either truly responsible or willing scapegoat

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#282

Post by mhmmmmmm »

jcarrano wrote: post #261

Let's see it another way: there's absolutely no way that in the 2-3 hours the post was up a person not familiar with the gamblecoin ecosystem could purchase $LIBRA, let alone pour thousands of dollars in. The people who lost money are all professional memecoin gamblers, and the ones who pocketed in are obviously connected to the project leaders. Cyptobros want to have unlimited freedom to trade whatever they want wit…

> This is not something you can just log in on Binance and buy with cash in a single click.

You would've definitely been able to buy it with cash and a few clicks, for example using moonshot. (And I'm sure a couple other / similar platforms)

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#283

Post by the_af »

rsynnott wrote: post #256
dysoco wrote: post #69

Just to clarify, here are some important differences compared to the Trump case: 1. Milei did not sell this as a memecoin at all, unlike Trump, he sold it as a "financial instrument to help finance small Argentinan enterprises". 2. Trump tweeted about $TRUMP BEFORE stepping into office, Milei is already the president of Argentina. This constitutes an obvious ethical violation, and possibly a legal one as well. 3. 80%…

Yeah, this pretty much shows him up, as either best-case, an idiot (duped by an obvious fraud) or worst-case, part of the fraud himself.

Milei's hardcore followers are still reeling. Either way, they'll have a hard time justifying his actions. His reputation has taken a major hit.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#285

Post by TZubiri »

rsynnott wrote: post #260
TZubiri wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get the crime part for the most part. If you know the rules of the game and you willingly participate, then how is it different from any casino? I don't buy into any of the people that claim they were scammed, they knew the rules and they tried to make money out of nothing. Other than perhaps trading unregulated securities, I don't see the actual fraud. To be clear it is distinct from pretending to be a secur…

> If you know the rules of the game and you willingly participate, then how is it different from any casino? If _everyone_ playing the game knew the rules, no-one would play. Like all fraudulent schemes, these are fundamentally dependent on getting in new marks. These memecoins are essentially partially open Ponzi schemes; there are the organisers (occupying essentially the Charles Ponzi role), the naive marks (occup…

Yet people play at casinos all the time.

There's always people that are ok with gambling and losing on the long run.

But there's people that recognize the zero sum, and bet that they are the ones having the advantage.

It's not like people bought the coin thinking they were helping the country, only conmen trying to outcon the conner bought it.

Although there definitely is an argument for tricking laypeople, I think it was just crypto traders and kids speculating on a coin.

It's very common in cons for the mark to think they are the conmen I hear.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#286

Post by the_af »

Xuban wrote: post #157
lovich wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I hope this helps people from outside Argentina get another view of Javier Milei, I've read way too many uninformed comments here on Hacker News and other sites about how he's a genius in economy and he's helping Argentina's economy, and that cannot be further from the truth sadly. If he made such a blunder in finance which supposedly is one of his specialties just imagine how incompetent he and most of the governme…

I don't think this is the approach if you want people to side against Milei. His economic results are crystal clear: inflation is way down, the economy is growing, percentage of poor people is down, the debt and the stock market are way up, salaries are up and so on.

> His economic results are crystal clear: inflation is way down, the economy is growing, percentage of poor people is down, the debt and the stock market are way up, salaries are up and so on.

Do you live in Argentina? Because none of this is actually true.

Look at the other side of the coin, too: his policies are authoritarian, he's dismantling science and industry, he's becoming like a religious leader automatically aligned with the US in whatever random things Trump says (e.g. attempting to leave the WHO just because Trump claimed he would do so).

Lots of poor people begging on the streets for a country where "the percentage of poor people is down". Also, this percentage is compared to the previous administration, which wasn't very good and also went through the COVID pandemic.

He's also been sacking close associates left and right, not exactly a sign of a competent government that inspires confidence.

> salaries are up and so on

This is false, but also, the cost of living is going up. Oh, "inflation" won't show you this, but the actual cost in dollars will.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#287

Post by TZubiri »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #198
TZubiri wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get the crime part for the most part. If you know the rules of the game and you willingly participate, then how is it different from any casino? I don't buy into any of the people that claim they were scammed, they knew the rules and they tried to make money out of nothing. Other than perhaps trading unregulated securities, I don't see the actual fraud. To be clear it is distinct from pretending to be a secur…

>I don't get the crime part for the most part. Neither do many of the people who say such a thing here. Instead they regurgitate classic HN talking points around crypto without really considering their logic. Simple example: calling something like bitcoin a "ponzi scheme" when it's literally run by nobody in particular and has no specific fraudulent promotion being done by its administrators (since there are none) fo…

I do think that there' nuances to crypto. But even bitcoin has some ponzi like properties:

1- high reward to early adopters 2- needed to be shared to have value

Although I will make the important distinction that the asset doesn't lose value once it can no longer be shared, which is typical of pyramid schemes. Quite the contrary, it reached critical mass and gained first mover monopoly

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#288

Post by TZubiri »

levanten wrote: post #169
TZubiri wrote: post #145

I seem to be in the minority here, and I would definitely be framed as a supporter for saying this, but I'm a nuanced person. He is more of an idiot than a scammer, legally I think the term is negligence instead of fraud. Having recognized that he caused damage by negligence, additionally I think he was a victim too, he was scammed out of political capital and reputation. I don't think he was in on it, although defin…

I dont know which scenario is worse for a president, an experienced economist like him not understanding what he was endorsing or being part of the scam.

That's an interesting question, would we rather have our president be a scammer or scammed.

Similar question, is it better or worse if our country commits war or war is committed upon us?

And perhaps a different question, regardless if whether it is better or worse, which would we rather be if we had to chose.

Also let's remember that 'neither' is also an option. And oops just happened once but let's not make it a habit, is too. No need to go to extremes.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#289

Post by the_af »

kjksf wrote: post #240
lovich wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no desire if to influence if people side with or against Milei. If you want to follow him, by all means go for it. I am however, still going to mock obviously bat shit insane ideas, and telepathically speaking with your cloned dogs for policy advice is absolutely bat shit insane

It would be if it was true. He apparently did clone his dogs but can you point to the source material (in this case Milei) about speaking with them telepathically? This just sounds super made up. I've listen to his interview with Lex F. and his WEF speech and he sounded like a principled free market advocate. Not a single thing he said was crazy so I wonder where did you get this factoid. Milei has certainly been sme…

It's not made up.

He's said so in speeches I've listened to. He claims his dog Conan (deceased) gives him advice from the Beyond. You can also google the myriad of interviews with him that mention this (and note: not all of them are critical, some found this touch of craziness endearing!).

He also claims his dogs (all clones of his revered Conan) are his "children", because they are the only "people" -- along with his sister -- "who will not betray him". Note that very few people have seen these dogs alive (very few recent photos or videos), and there's concern they may also be providing him comfort from "the Great Beyond". He gets enraged if people question him about this.

The guy is mentally unstable.

> Milei has certainly been smeared as right-wing so I wouldn't be surprised with other smears as well.

Sadly, in this case the truth is stranger than fiction.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#290

Post by otherme123 »

xinayder wrote: post #248
otherme123 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, he just did the most impressive turn on a economy on the run towards a hyperinflation ever seen. There are a lot of things I don't like about Milei: this memecoin event is bad, but so is his political friendship with open self declared fascists, him being a libertarian. He is a populist. But about macro economics he is doing, at least, good. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that minimum is simply a hater th…

I don't see his feats as impressive when he was responsible for putting more than half of the population in poverty when he started. You can look at these numbers and say it's an improvement, but half of the population is still considered poor and the rate at which it's decreasing is not fast enough to consider Milei as a "genius".

That's not true! The poverty rate went from something like 40% to 55%. Now it's back again to 40%. Not good, but not horrific either.
Post reply on HN