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Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

jacek.zlydach.pl

281–286 of 286 posts

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#281

> This is why my kid isn't going to watch YouTube. If and when we decide to show her any children's show, it'll be from a manually curated set of videos downloaded and streamed from a NAS. In my opinion, it's irresponsible to expose children to modern advertising. I think we need to be careful with this approach. It's also irresponsible to not expose them to modern advertising. Unfortunately, modern advertising does…

TFA's author here.

> Maybe a better way is, instead of banning anything, to supervise and explain to our children what they're seeing.

Now that I have 3 of them, and the oldest is almost 6, I guess I need to update the article on how this panned out.

Long story short: replacing Spotify and YouTube for music with yt-dlp + Audacity (to cut out ads, padding, channel jingles and other nonsense, + normalize volume) worked to an extent, and I built up a small library for my eldest daughter, which I then reused with the younger ones. However, once the oldest one went to kindergarten, she immediately contracted the Paw Patrol fever, and we couldn't continue keeping our kids oblivious to children programming anymore.

I mean, you can try and fight Paw Patrol, but you can't win in the end, and the more you resist, the harder it gets for your kid to make friends. Same with other major franchises. It's the same kind of problem as teenagers and smartphones, just couple years earlier.

Anyway, from that point on, curating a local library stripped of advertising became too much of a hassle. Instead, we embraced Netflix and YouTube - I just keep the ad-blocker running to reduce ad exposure, but since advertising is everywhere and can't be avoided, we focus on teaching our kids how to process it.

As evidenced by TFA, I do have some strong views on advertising in general, but I'm not dumping them on my kids. Letting them see advertising as just a fact of life seems to make it less impactful. Turns out, most ads are 100% boring to my kids (after we get past the "why is the man doing ${something they never saw someone do before}" questions); my oldest one actually figured out on her own where the "skip ad" button is on YouTube and how to operate the mouse to click it and resume the song that was playing. And those that aren't boring, we actually learned to enjoy.

I can go on and on, but I'll leave it for an eventual blog article.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#282
post #56

After reading the symptoms of the disease, I would say that Advertising could qualify as "Flu on Society". Adverse effects, some people might die of it, but not as fatal or devastating as cancer. Arguably advertising has some benefits for society as well. I have at least found some products that I really wanted and enjoyed thanks to their ads (not many compared to the number of ads I have seen through all my life. St…

> The author himself is falling to the "Advertising Trap" of click-baiting his potential audience.

Maybe? It's provocative, but I felt (and still feel) it's an accurate metaphor.

The thing that made me start thinking of advertising in these terms is a bit of trivia I picked up (from IIRC Scott Alexander's blog posts) on why big mammals like whales get much less cancer than they should per models that correlate cancer rates with body size and metabolism. Turns out, one hypothesis is that those big animals do get more cancer, and their larger bodies allow the cancer to get proportionally larger - so large, that it eventually develops its own cancer, and gets killed by it.

This image of a cancer growing on another cancer was a good fit for a bunch of personal experiences I had observing social media content marketing people who happened to work in the same room as I did at the time (a spin-off from a startup I worked for), and also fit well with stories about A/B testing services, whose UI encouraged mistakes invalidating results in just the right way to make them think they're getting good value from the testing service. That made me start thinking in these terms, and from there I slowly developed a general cancer analogy, which I then put in the article you just read.

WRT. cancer-on-cancer thing, the article doesn't mention it at all, though it was partly the thought behind this fragment:

> It also allows the advertisers to scam each other on attribution, which isn't surprising if you consider that lying is literally their job. Cancer cells don't play well with each other unless they have to.

I'll need to update the article and include a paragraph about the meta-cancer thing.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#283

There are two major things missing: 1) No one actually likes this stuff , and it still exists everywhere , so it must be worth it. I feel like the article is a broad list of the author's least favorite aspects of today's information/social/economic environment. But those are just the cost of consuming all our favorite content for ~free, right? It's like saying "I think this price is oppressive, and although I am will…

> No one actually likes this stuff, and it still exists everywhere, so it must be worth it.

I believe I covered that too, but maybe not explicitly enough. The root of the problem is that engaging in bad practices is a) allowed, and b) is profitable on the margin. In a competitive environment, this creates a zero-sum game, and that alone is enough of an explanation. Quoting myself from the article:

If you have competitors, you can't not participate.

> But those are just the cost of consuming all our favorite content for ~free, right?

It's not like we're being given much of a choice. Most people have less money than they need to satisfy even just the reasonable needs and wants, so being extremely price-sensitive is the default state for customers. In this environment, "free with ads" is a one-way strategy: it's impossible to compete on price with "free", so once someone goes for this model, all their direct competitors are forced to follow suit. It's why I see "free + ads" as an extremely anti-competitive move: it prevents any other business model from working.

> The size of the company has to be a major factor here. If your local shop takes out an ad in the local newspaper, I don't care what weird psychological tactics they use, does it really hit the same way?

It can be a factor, but I think its effect is often inverse. Large companies are a big, fat target for lawyers and regulators; there's only so much they can get away with these days. Small businesses can and do get much more scammy without repercussion, because their impact is much smaller and localized, and they're individually too small a target for the legal system to bother.

Also let's remember that, while small local companies are small and local, there's also a lot of them. And even as their "weird psychological tactics" affect only few people in each case, it isn't much of a consolation when you're one of those people.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#284

This analogy seems weak. In general, this post argues one way while ignoring all the good advertising does. Do cancers typically do good things at their baseline?

> Do cancers typically do good things at their baseline? I mean, true, a cancer will probably destroy its host organism. But what about the cells whose mutations allow them to think outside the box, and replicate and expand beyond their wildest dreams by throwing away the limits imposed by overbearing genetic regulations and expectations of the organism? Isn't that a good thing?

(I agree with you, based on the point being made here, but I'm actually here to say I stumbled across your earlier comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41828485 and wanted to say "holy crap". I apologize for interrupting your current thread, it was just too astonishing a medical recovery story for me not to say something.)

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do cancers typically do good things at their baseline? I mean, true, a cancer will probably destroy its host organism. But what about the cells whose mutations allow them to think outside the box, and replicate and expand beyond their wildest dreams by throwing away the limits imposed by overbearing genetic regulations and expectations of the organism? Isn't that a good thing?

(I agree with you, based on the point being made here, but I'm actually here to say I stumbled across your earlier comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41828485 and wanted to say "holy crap". I apologize for interrupting your current thread, it was just too astonishing a medical recovery story for me not to say something.)

No apology needed, I'm very happy that you found my old comment so interesting!

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that defining advertising is hard, but "1 : a public notice" is so broad as to be almost meaningless as a definition.

I personally don't find it that vague, but that might be my non-English bias.

It leaves a lot unsaid. Advertising has a lot of connotations and cultural significance. It can evoke strong feelings for one and be a livelihood for another. Simply stating that an advertisement is 'a public notice' doesn't do it justice.

I understand that dictionaries are not encyclopedias, but a little more is warranted IMO.

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