Live data from Hacker News

Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

projects.propublica.org

281–290 of 411 posts

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like USAID is established by statute (The Foreign Assistance Act of 1961). It cannot be eliminated or gutted by executive order. Sidestepping this, which is happening left and right currently, is democracy failing.

[flagged]

“I went over it with him in detail, and he agreed that we should shut it down,” Musk said.

“And I actually checked with him a few times [and] said ‘are you sure?’” The answer was yes, he said.

“And so we’re shutting it down,” Musk said.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#282
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on the positive side, maybe these young ones will have a help of Grok when introducing code into critical safety systems!

What a terrible name the man ruined by choosing, a perfectly cromulent Heinleinian term.

I think Heinlein ideologically is somewhat a fellow traveler with Musk and Thiel types.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US is a country of immigrants, and has been so since it's inception. As JD aptly put it, that’s wrong,[1] but, regardless, so what? America is first and foremost, a democratic republic. Sentimental 20th century notions designed to assimilate the last wave of mass immigration have no binding power on the electorate. Americans are entitled to decide that they’re done with immigration, and it’s the civil service’s…

> As JD aptly put it, that’s wrong (...) That's a mind-numbing stupid take which is rejected by the faintest cursory ancestry analysis of the US population. The 2020 census alone points out that there is as many german americans as English americans, and I'm not seeing racist anti-immigration rants targeting germans. They are the predominant ethnic group in the Northeast and Midwest regions. If not by immigration the…

There’s many ethnic Germans in America, but there’s almost nothing German in broader American law and civic society. Thats the distinction between the settler population (British people and African slaves, with a relatively small proportion of Dutch, Spanish, and French) and the immigrant population (everyone else).

America is a country that happens to have a lot of people of immigrant ancestry. That’s an incidental feature. Because it’s a physically large country that was for a long time relatively unsettled. But that doesn’t define the country. There isn’t anything that commits the country to any particular policy re: immigration. In fact, the massive German, Irish, and Italian immigration of the 19th century led to a decades-long restriction of immigration staring in the 1920s, where the foreign born population dropped from 15% (similar to now) to under 5% by 1970.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#285
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what this means.

Uniparty probably references the fact that D and R parties have maintained a status quo and only differentiate themselves through inconsequential arguments. Kleptocracy in the way those Congress members have colluded to give money to their benefactors (unjust wars, subsidizing bank failures, subsidizing health insurance companies that screw most of us). It's not mysterious.

It is mysterious for those who have different world views or exist inside of a partisan bubble. I can easily imagine how they might characterize your above comment as a, "conspiracy theory". Interesting times.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#286

Honest question for Americans. What do you think the federal government is doing to make you "poorer" that deserves dismantling the government. US income tax is generally lower than other advanced economies. Housing and medical insurance is mainly a state issue.

> What do you think the federal government is doing to make you "poorer" that deserves dismantling the government.

This is what you get after years of defunding or mishandling education. The oligarchs managed to convince the general public that the government is stealing from them. The past decades have seen a huge upward wealth transfer which peaked during covid and this was repackaged and sold back to the people as 'government bad'. Sure, government bad because they didn't go after the oligarchs, but dismantling it is not a solution.

There will be no tax cuts for the plebs after the government is 'leaner', I guarantee it. At most a marginal couple hundred bucks per year - at the cost of drastically cutting down the civil services, some of that invisible stuff that makes society run. By far the biggest beneficiaries of a weak impotent government will be the existing ruling class, the so-called 'elites' the angry 'deplorables' voted against.

My worry is that it's going to backfire and at the exact wrong time, when we need to deal with climate change, pandemics, crumbling old infrastructure and ongoing wealth consolidation. Fun times ahead.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sold on these actions being done in good faith, or legally. There’s a lot of evidence of forceful behavior in obtaining access to highly sensitive systems. Also, the government is here to run services, for us, with the money we give it in the form of taxes. Removing all government services in order to save money (and provide tax cuts to the 0.1% richest people and corps.) seems to be based in the belief that…

I have lived experience dealing with selling software to government agencies. I have observed egregious activity, which to my company's government salesmen, didn't cause them to blink an eye. In one case, the DoD budget ran out of money, but the DoD budget for Disabled Veteran purchasing still had money, so we added 10% to the contract and resold through a disabled veteran's LLC, the taxpayer got screwed, the LLC-own…

> How does a US politician on a $175k salary become worth $80 million after 30 years in congress?

Which politician are we talking about here? Or are we being generic? From what I've seen, the majority of people in Congress started off rich because, well, you need to be rich (or at least rich-adjacent) to even consider running.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#288
post #58
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The part of the constitution that says only Congress can create laws and the president just implements them.

He didn't create any law in this matter and he used a legal path way, executive orders. Do cry about the broken system.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve neglected any discussion of democracy beyond the executive branch.

Can you expand? I keep hearing on HN about how the US is being "taken over", that there is a "coup in place" and Musk is a "fascist" and so on (I'm not making these up, these are genuine HN comments in this thread and elsewhere). I'd like someone to clearly explain to me, an outsider about why such hostility has been ushered in this community ? Please point me to specifics so that I can understand what law(s) are bei…

Sure, happy to expand.

Stepping back quite a bit, the US constitution divides up responsibilities between the Legislator (Congress), the Executive (President), and the courts (Supreme Court).

The Legislator is given rights over declaring war, applying tariffs and levying taxes, federal budget, approving international treaties, and of course writing laws. Over the past 250 years, the legislative branch has slowly given the executive branch more discretion. In times of emergency, the legislative branch moves too slowly, so the executive branch is better suited to make snap decisions.

Trump, as soon as he's taken office, immediately used these powers to declare an emergency at the border (https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/01/fact-sheet-pr...) and redirected the military to intervene. It's an abuse of the power, as the situation has been relatively stable (enough so that congress should have had time to meet and decide on next steps), but it's something he did in his last term as well (https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/pr...) so was expected. What wasn't expected was the repurposing of Guantanamo Bay (a military prison with a dark history outside the jurisdiction of most US courts) now being used for migrants (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0p1ykxyzjo). It's a worrying trend of moving undesirables somewhere out of sight of the general public. In his last term, there were detention centers inside of the US (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tornillo-texas-tent-camp-hou...) with poor conditions -- most notably, Trump pardoned one such sheriff (https://www.npr.org/2017/08/25/545282459/president-trump-par...) who was remarkably cruel and called the tent cities personal concentration camps. This shift to move migrants to more restricted areas is seen as a way to avoid oversight.

Trump likewise invoked the International Emergency Economic Powers Act to levy tariffs against Canada (https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/prog...), Mexico (https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/impo...), and China (https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/impo...). Again, these powers are usually invoked in response to war, so it's considered an abuse of power. Canada and Mexico are also close allies and a part of USMCA, which is a treaty promoting free trade between the three countries; Trump negotiated & signed the USMCA treaty when he was last in office, and has since called it a bad deal and these tariffs directly conflict with it. It's put the US in a situation where allies are being alienated. Trump has also threatened tariffs against the EU and Taiwan, both of which currently count on US military intervention in case of war, which is straining those relationships as well.

Republicans, hopefully more as a show of solidarity than an act they'd follow through with, have also introduced legislation (https://ogles.house.gov/media/press-releases/rep-ogles-propo...) to allow Trump (and only Trump) to run a 3rd term as president. This kind of twisting of the laws is something you'd expect more in Russia or other puppet governments and leaves a bad taste. Similarly, legislation to add Trump to our national landmarks (https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/792) have been floated while Trump has had historically low approval ratings when compared to past presidents (https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ra...).

In Trump's previous term, he appointed several Supreme Court justices. The court is idealistically an unbiased and independent branch, and are given lifetime appointments as such, but the political leanings of the court have shifted with these new appointments. Abortion, a controversial topic in the US, was recently made illegal in several states after the court re-ruled, on party lines, a 50-year standing (https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/19-1392_6j37.pdf). More recently, and relevantly, though, the supreme court ruled again on party lines that the president cannot be taken to court over illegal acts while in office (https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf) and that only congress's power of impeachment can be used. With a republican majority in both houses of congress (and impeachment requiring 2/3rds approval to convict), there seem to be little to no recourse to anything Trump has done or plans to do regardless of legality. It's democratic in a sense -- the US population voted for a majority in the house and senate and so we're getting what we voted for -- but there's 2 years until the next election, so there's a prevailing sense of helplessness.

Getting into powers of the purse, as mentioned before, the executive branch is expected to dutifully carry out the budget and laws set by the legislative branch. This includes the creation and running of departments, as well as getting senate approval for department heads. Notably, Elon Musk is not a senate-approved department head, but he's been given dangerous amounts of access to the treasury (https://www.wired.com/story/treasury-department-doge-marko-e...) and other departments. This is without going through the normal vetting process (although, as President, Trump does have the power to bypass such requirements. It's simply against norms, and raises concerns about the possibility of blackmail, espionage, and hacking). Elon has also declared several departments as 'criminal organizations' (https://www.npr.org/2025/02/03/nx-s1-5285539/doge-musk-usaid...), Trump has fired anyone who has pushed back against Elon's requests, and funding for most departments has been paused pending review. Trump has also offered almost federal employees a Voluntary Exit Program (VEP) (https://www.opm.gov/fork/), although the legality of such a VEP is debated since past court cases (https://www.oyez.org/cases/1989/88-1943) have ruled that congressional approval is necessary. If that's the case, anyone who resigns may not end up being paid. This is seen as a wider purge (eg. https://apnews.com/article/trump-fbi-firing-a7b19a5f414ce82c..., https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-federal-inspectors-genera...) of the government to replace federal employees with loyalists to the president (instead of to the constitution).

And for Elon specifically, during Trump's inauguration he did his infamous "My heart goes out to you" salute (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VfYjPzj1Xw) which is seen as a poor attempt to signal to the far right and neo-nazi parties, that typically have supported the republican party, that they are welcome and in positions of power now. Elon also spoke at far-right rallies in Germany (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/elon-musk-appears-video...) championing lines of nationalist empowerment. At face value, it's innocent enough, but these terms are also seen as a dogwhistle for neo-nazis and so it's seen together as another vocalization of support for them.

Trump also pardoned everyone involved in the insurrection on January 6th, who had invaded the capital and attempted to abduct the congressmen and vice president to stop them from ratifying the peaceful transfer of power in 2020. This is seen as a nod from Trump that if you support him, you will have immunity for your actions.

---

The US populace voted for this, so if it's a coup it's a bloodless one. But everything Trump has done in the few weeks he's been in office is very extreme by the standards of the US. The transfer is power is usually peaceful, and builds upon the work of past presidents. This is a very abrupt departure from that, and no concern is given to impressions of corruption and nepotism.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived experience dealing with selling software to government agencies. I have observed egregious activity, which to my company's government salesmen, didn't cause them to blink an eye. In one case, the DoD budget ran out of money, but the DoD budget for Disabled Veteran purchasing still had money, so we added 10% to the contract and resold through a disabled veteran's LLC, the taxpayer got screwed, the LLC-own…

> How does a US politician on a $175k salary become worth $80 million after 30 years in congress? Which politician are we talking about here? Or are we being generic? From what I've seen, the majority of people in Congress started off rich because, well, you need to be rich (or at least rich-adjacent) to even consider running.

Chuck Schumer, who has been in Congress since 1998 https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/wealth/chuck-schumer-net-wo...
Post reply on HN