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Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

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Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#281

Post by wrs »

Lammy wrote: post #243
titanomachy wrote: post #224

> the entire human person is simultaneously both material and spiritual... the human person transcends the material world through the soul... the human spirit does not exercise its normal mode of knowledge without the body I have a hard time wrapping my head around exactly what it is that Christians believe about immortality. So the soul lives on forever, but without the reasoning and intellectual capabilities grante…

Not a Christian or follower of any organized religion but IMHO: Humanity (capital-H) is immortal; individual humans are not. Individuals are like the memory cells keeping the accumulated body of knowledge alive, and that body of knowledge is “God” or whatever, simultaneously human and spirit, an entire other world of Idea hosted in a distributed form in our physical reality. It's like a DRAM refresh where new individ…

This is great, except the knowledge is no more Eternal than the collection of humans. (The knowledge is also leaky—a lot of it has been lost.) If you turn off the DRAM power long enough, you can’t refresh it. So the need to maintain a sustainable environment for the humans is an inescapable conclusion from this model.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#282

Post by Lammy »

mistrial9 wrote: post #261
Lammy wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a Christian or follower of any organized religion but IMHO: Humanity (capital-H) is immortal; individual humans are not. Individuals are like the memory cells keeping the accumulated body of knowledge alive, and that body of knowledge is “God” or whatever, simultaneously human and spirit, an entire other world of Idea hosted in a distributed form in our physical reality. It's like a DRAM refresh where new individ…

such a powerful insight.. until the last half-sentence.. why add that ? really?

TRVKE whether you like it or not

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#284

Post by kittikitti »

I just want to appreciate how well written and thought out this was. I have spent countless hours reading over ethics on AI, especially from Big Tech sources, but this note is leaps beyond. I compare this to the disastrous letter that effectively knee-capped American AI all while proposing flimsy AI ethics within about 500 words (https://futureoflife.org/open-letter/pause-giant-ai-experime...). This should be another red flag when America's $500 Billion Stargate project is being led by people including Sam Altman and Larry Ellison, who are singing doomsday prophecies while the Vatican is making sincere efforts to understand AI.

I'm really caught admiring this and think this may very well be the AI Magna Carta. There are so many gems and while many of the sources are based on Catholicism, there is also an incredible depth of research, even going into "On the foundational role of language in shaping understanding, cf. M. Heidegger." The note also builds upon numerous different discussions from the Vatican including this supplemental one, https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2024/ju...

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#285

Post by austin-cheney »

titanomachy wrote: post #224

> the entire human person is simultaneously both material and spiritual... the human person transcends the material world through the soul... the human spirit does not exercise its normal mode of knowledge without the body I have a hard time wrapping my head around exactly what it is that Christians believe about immortality. So the soul lives on forever, but without the reasoning and intellectual capabilities grante…

> I have a hard time wrapping my head around exactly what it is that Christians believe about immortality

From the Christian perspective immortality is less limited than mortality. In mortality people are limited by the physical limitations of their bodies, thinking capacity, and the worldly environment in which they operate. Beyond that Christians cannot precisely describe immortality because knowledge and/or memories of that, or anything else, do not accompany the soul into the mortal world. All Christians can know is a limited set of opportunities described in religious scripture. Everything else in mortality descends from agency and accountability.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#286

Post by michaelsbradley »

Dansvidania wrote: post #23
bondarchuk wrote: post #9

No Latin version?

I was really expecting it too. Pretty disappointing.

This document is a relatively minor publication from a dicastery. These days, you can generally expect Latin editions will be produced for major documents such as papal encyclicals, and may only become available when the document is prepared, after its initial publication, for inclusion in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#288

Post by svieira »

titanomachy wrote: post #224

> the entire human person is simultaneously both material and spiritual... the human person transcends the material world through the soul... the human spirit does not exercise its normal mode of knowledge without the body I have a hard time wrapping my head around exactly what it is that Christians believe about immortality. So the soul lives on forever, but without the reasoning and intellectual capabilities grante…

> So the soul lives on forever, but without the reasoning and intellectual capabilities granted by the corporeal form?

:boom: You've found it! The disassociation of soul and body are the problem that pre-Catholic thinkers ran into over and over again. The soul must be immortal, but it relies on the body for the sensory perceptions which enable the first stages of any intellection. So what the heck happens to it after this dissolution?

This is why the resurrection is such a big deal. Not only is the soul redeemed, all of corporeal reality is redeemed. As later revealed (Revelation in particular, St. Paul's writings in several other places) the Final Judgement will include the restoration of the "whole human person", body _and_ soul.

What about the time between death and the final judgement? There is no natural bridge for our intellect to work on the beatific vision, but there is nothing stopping God from making up what is lacking (and indeed, we believe He does make up for what is lacking, so that the entire time between our particular judgement and the Final Judgement those who are in Heaven will be able to reason and remember far better than they could while on Earth).

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#289

Post by Barrin92 »

macrocosmos wrote: post #175
breuleux wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, it is not AI that is ultimately deified and worshipped, but humanity itself---which, in this way, becomes enslaved to its own work. Doesn't that describe all religion? I mean, you're telling me that the infinite creator of the universe cares about the prayers, the suffering, the aspirations, and the sexual habits of a bunch of finite beings? The hubris! It seems obvious to me that the gods of all religions…

You seem to have many misconceptions about what Catholics actually believe. And then you seem to take exception to these misconceptions. So your exceptions are only with beliefs that exist in your own mind.

It's not really a misconception, this was Feuerbach's and also Nietzsche's or Stirner's criticism of Christianity. It projects human attributes on an ostensibly divine subject "othering" and worshipping them, in reality just attempting to sanctify humanity. (in Stirner's words creating Mensch (human/mankind) with a capital M". This is incredibly obvious in the psychology underpinning a lot of Christian beliefs, the Manichaean good and evil worldview, the meek inheriting the earth, the day of judgement, equality, immortality i.e. trying to escape death, and so on.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#290

Post by dang »

bossyTeacher wrote: post #47

Not sure why it is so noteworthy. This is an institution that rejected evolutionary biology and has quietly changed its views over time. Whatever objections they have now, they will abandon for the convenience that future AI will bring. Either that or they will continue to push against while also secretly using it

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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