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Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

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Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#281

Post by coliveira »

karim79 wrote: post #244
mmaunder wrote: post #225

The amount of vitriol in these comments is the really surprising data. I've seen the same on Twitter. I can only put it down to the financial pain DeepSeek inflicted on many US retail investors by wiping almost $700 billion off NVidia's stock price. I think a lot of folks didn't see it coming and it hurt them right where it matters most: In the wallet. The anger out there is very real.

+1. I also enjoy the "China be stealin' ur data and personal info" angle. As if the incumbents haven't already done that, and are still doing it, as their core business practices. This whole thing should be an eye-opener to most people. To ask an honest question, who gives a crap if a Chinese company manages to grab data that many of the usual Silicon Valley suspects have had all along and have been incrementally upd…

> How is this a "threat".

It is a threat to WallStreet and Silicon Valley. It just broke the illusion that they're kings of tech.

> why the hell does every single media outlet point out the "Tienanmen Square" question?

Sour grapes, but also the media cannot report anything about China without showing its anti-China bias.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#282

Post by tyre »

fulladder wrote: post #126
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DeepSeek isn’t a side project or just a bunch of quants - these are part of the marketing that people keep repeating blindly for some reason. To build DeepSeek probably requires at least a $1B+ budget. Between their alleged 50,000 H100 GPUs, expensive (and talented) staff, and the sheer cost of iterating across numerous training runs - it all adds up to far, far more than their highly dubious claim of $5.5M. Anyone s…

>To build DeepSeek probably requires at least a $1B+ budget. Zero evidence that the above statement is true, and weak evidence (authors' claims) that it is false. Have you read their papers even? https://arxiv.org/html/2412.19437v1#abstract https://arxiv.org/pdf/2501.12948

H100s can cost about $30k. There was an interview with a CEO in the space speculating that they have about 50,000 H100s. That's $1.5bn. Presumably they got volume discounts, though given the export bans they might have had to pay a premium on that discount to buy them secondhand. If it were H800s, that would be ~half the price, which is still high hundreds of millions for the chips alone.

Is that true? No idea. But there isn't zero evidence.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#283

Post by [deleted] »

m00x wrote: post #245
mmaunder wrote: post #225

The amount of vitriol in these comments is the really surprising data. I've seen the same on Twitter. I can only put it down to the financial pain DeepSeek inflicted on many US retail investors by wiping almost $700 billion off NVidia's stock price. I think a lot of folks didn't see it coming and it hurt them right where it matters most: In the wallet. The anger out there is very real.

The hit on NVidia's stock price makes no sense to me. DeepSeek uses H100s and H800s. They'll likely have reasons to buy more now, and America will want to compete even harder, buying more chips. American companies are still way ahead as well, but they're just getting more competition. This will be healthy.

[deleted]

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#284

Post by stavros »

gleenn wrote: post #261
m00x wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hit on NVidia's stock price makes no sense to me. DeepSeek uses H100s and H800s. They'll likely have reasons to buy more now, and America will want to compete even harder, buying more chips. American companies are still way ahead as well, but they're just getting more competition. This will be healthy.

The stock price had assumptions baked in about the number of units expected to be sold. DeepSeek cut that hardware estimate by as much as 45x. That is that absolute obvious correlation between that model being very efficient to train and NVDA dropping 18%.

Can someone explain how DeepSeek cut that estimate? Their (fast) API is always down, and the third-party providers on OpenRouter are more expensive than Claude.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#285

Post by persedes »

lukan wrote: post #239
hdlothia wrote: post #5

This kinda does support the 'DeepSeek is the side project of a bunch of quants' angle. Seems like the kind of mistake you would make if you are not used to deploying external client facing applications.

'DeepSeek is the side project of a bunch of quants' I doubt it very much that it only was that and not massivly backed by the Chinese state in general. As with OpenAI, much of this has to do with hype based speculation. In the case of OpenAI they played with the speculations, that they might have AGI locked up in their labs already and fueled those speculations. The result, massive investment (now in danger). And Chi…

To corroborate the side project angle, their sdks are quite literally taken from openai:

  # Please install OpenAI SDK first: `pip3 install openai`
  from openai import OpenAI
  client = OpenAI(api_key="", base_url="https://api.deepseek.com")

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#286

Post by sampullman »

gleenn wrote: post #261
m00x wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hit on NVidia's stock price makes no sense to me. DeepSeek uses H100s and H800s. They'll likely have reasons to buy more now, and America will want to compete even harder, buying more chips. American companies are still way ahead as well, but they're just getting more competition. This will be healthy.

The stock price had assumptions baked in about the number of units expected to be sold. DeepSeek cut that hardware estimate by as much as 45x. That is that absolute obvious correlation between that model being very efficient to train and NVDA dropping 18%.

It still doesn't make sense to me. If the money for training is still there, wouldn't companies that can afford it use the efficiency gains and also scale up models?

Unless AI is a bubble, and it pops, I can't see the demand for compute going down.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#287

Post by MichaelZuo »

sampullman wrote: post #286
gleenn wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stock price had assumptions baked in about the number of units expected to be sold. DeepSeek cut that hardware estimate by as much as 45x. That is that absolute obvious correlation between that model being very efficient to train and NVDA dropping 18%.

It still doesn't make sense to me. If the money for training is still there, wouldn't companies that can afford it use the efficiency gains and also scale up models? Unless AI is a bubble, and it pops, I can't see the demand for compute going down.

They would scale things up slightly slower.

And money 5 years from now is simply worth less to markets than money 7 years from now.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#288

Post by XorNot »

whereismyacc wrote: post #169
ziddoap wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many examples of experienced teams doing stupid things like exposing databases that I don't really think this is a valid conclusion to draw.

Clearly it could never be enough to draw that conclusion but it might be very weak evidence in one direction

If something is an intelligence operation, they aren't going to screw up basic database security.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#289

Post by tasty_freeze »

khazhoux wrote: post #278
sho_hn wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wary of engaging in false equivalence, but people seem to have really forgotten the revelations of the Snowden episode.

which was what?

If you rat out the government doing unconstitutional things, you lose your citizenship.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#290

Post by numpad0 »

sghiassy wrote: post #94
creakingstairs wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s harder to learn for sure. Majority of the resources are in English and it’s harder to internalise the keywords. But it’s definitely possible to program without knowing English.

But like, you can’t program Java without English right? A for-loop has to be written in English?? I’m so confused haha

It's like names of Pokemons. Every kids know that Bulbasaur is grass-poison typed and evolves into Ivysaur at Level 16. You have to memorize them all to be a good player and that's a whole load of nonsense! But that's not relatively huge undertaking, and nothing remotely like the full language.
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