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Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

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Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#281

Post by orwin »

wqaatwt wrote: post #263
orwin wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, historically far-left is the revolutionary left, the one you see organize global strikes (they don't believe in representation democracy, only in direct democracy, bottom up, so it is _very_ rare to see them participate in elections). Since global strikes are forbidden in the US, you'll have to define it by its negative: anti-capitalist and anti-imperialist always, anti-globalist sometime. You have some g…

> only in direct democracy, I thought far-left is typically vanguardist and doesn’t believe in any type of [real] democracy? Dictatorship of the proletariat and all that stuff..

Dictatorship of the proletariat is supposed to be in theory a transition period. In practice, once you get the power, you keep it.

Other on the far left will rather go a more local route, destroying state structure (as state is oppressive by nature) in the beginning to create a collective bottom up.

I'm not saying any of this is a good idea btw, it's just that far-left has fled the US a long time ago. If you aren't revolutionary, you aren't far-left.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#282

Post by orwin »

paulddraper wrote: post #254
orwin wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, historically far-left is the revolutionary left, the one you see organize global strikes (they don't believe in representation democracy, only in direct democracy, bottom up, so it is _very_ rare to see them participate in elections). Since global strikes are forbidden in the US, you'll have to define it by its negative: anti-capitalist and anti-imperialist always, anti-globalist sometime. You have some g…

So I can understand the distribution of this definition, what % of governments in world history have been far-left?

Practically, no government, at least not long-lasting one. Far leftist see the state (and government) as innately oppressive. So some will say Russia from 1917 to 1921, I kinda disagree. Some communes were far-left though (communes are a better echelon for far-left ideas in general), the oldest were the platformists in Ukraine, they fought against Germany (Lenine sold Ukraine to them, Ukrainian anarchists disagreed), then the Russian white army, then lost to the Russian red army. Way more recently, some far-left adjacent communes debuted in Mexico, because Mexico constitution allows them to exist, but they're still within a state (they mostly self-organized to repel cartels extortion). Think Israeli kibbutz.

Imho this is 'normal'. Far-left ideals do not seem to work at large scale.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#283

Post by cbeach »

davidw wrote: post #280
cbeach wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blue tribe are especially riled about Elon Musk belonging to the red tribe… because Musk once belonged to the blue tribe. To tribal types, there’s nothing worse than an apostate.

I could sit down and have a great conversation with, say, Mitt Romney or GWB, I bet. I'd learn something about the world and how they view it and their thoughts and ideas. The white supremacy stuff is just trash though. That's not "tribes", it's unacceptable.

> The white supremacy stuff is just trash though. That's not "tribes", it's unacceptable.

Are you really branding Elon Musk a "white supremacist?" Based on what? Some ill-advised retweet of a crank on Twitter?

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#284

Post by bdangubic »

voganmother42 wrote: post #260
sidcool wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be true of songs and movies. But cars are too expensive. And Teslas are bought not just by the rich but all across the economic spectrum. I can't relate to what you talk about here.

You cannot relate to describing someone’s subjective opinion as blatantly false? Teslas may be bought across the spectrum, none of that is remotely relevant. Tesla owners are often insufferable to listen to as they go on and on about their cars, like they make vegans seem a treat by comparison, that alone may dissuade people - I know it does for me.

with such a bias towards tesla owners it would be wise if you didn’t get yourself involved in these types of discussions. “tesla sucks because tesla owners are terrible…” :)

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#285

Post by solardev »

i80and wrote: post #201
solardev wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask what kind of car it is and where the road trips are from/to? The last time I rented an EV in the SF Bay Area (a year or two ago, a Leaf), I had trouble even finding enough charging stations just to get around the area, like from SF to the South Bay and then to Santa Cruz. The few chargers I did find had several broken stations, multiple people waiting in line for the one working one, and it was very expensi…

VW ID.4, road tripping around the northeast (NJ/NY) and midwest (to/fro Michigan). In your case, the Leaf is the single EV that should never be or have been sold or rented out since around 2020. It's ancient and is the last EV lacking support for the major fast charging plugs in north America, so I'm not surprised you had charging issues! I'm really sorry they gave you that car!

Ah, I didn't know the Leaf was particularly bad. Guess I was just unlucky / uninformed. Good to know! I'd love to get an EV someday.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#286

Post by seattle_spring »

FloorEgg wrote: post #163
benjaminwootton wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really anti Elon, in fact I agree with a lot of what he says, but I just cannot get over that paedo comment. That said a lot about his character.

100% same re the pedo tweet. Though sometimes I remember how just about everyone in my life that I love, respect and have spent a lot of time with has said something stupid, insecure, distasteful or offensive at some point. Everyone makes mistakes and says or does something out of character when they are at their worst. The difference with Elon is that so much of what he says is so public. Some of my friends who are…

> Though sometimes I remember how just about everyone in my life that I love, respect and have spent a lot of time with has said something stupid, insecure, distasteful or offensive at some point

You don't think there's maybe a bit of difference between "has said something stupid, insecure, distasteful or offensive at some point", and "has said something stupid, insecure, or distasteful multiple times a day every day since spending $44B for the privilege to project those stupid, insecure, distasteful or offensive statements as far and wide as possible"?

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#287

Post by peutetre »

cbeach wrote: post #283
davidw wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could sit down and have a great conversation with, say, Mitt Romney or GWB, I bet. I'd learn something about the world and how they view it and their thoughts and ideas. The white supremacy stuff is just trash though. That's not "tribes", it's unacceptable.

> The white supremacy stuff is just trash though. That's not "tribes", it's unacceptable. Are you really branding Elon Musk a "white supremacist?" Based on what? Some ill-advised retweet of a crank on Twitter?

The "but that's not the real Musk" game doesn't work anymore. They aren't "ill-advised" retweets. They are who and what he is. Increasingly they are all he is. Musk is the crank on Twitter.

Musk spends all day, every day showing you who and what he is. Believe him.

Here are two exercises for you:

1. Musk is keen on criticizing many governments, both foreign and domestic. Can you find for me a single criticism of the Chinese government from Musk?

2. Musk likes to spread conspiracy theories. Musk says he is a technologist. Musk says he knows a lot about computers. Musk says the last thing he would do is trust a computer program:

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/musk-pushes-debunked-...

Can you reconcile Musk's position that he would never trust a computer program with his claim that Tesla has a full-self driving computer program that does full autonomy (this time for sure!) and everyone should trust it (it will save lives!) and buy it and rent it and hail a robotaxi?

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#288

Post by WorldPeas »

junto wrote: post #228

Good. Musk has aligned himself with a number of people that have designs on forcing Europe’s hand to abandon Ukraine and make a strong return to Russian gas and Saudi oil. Russia and the oil rich Middle East have no desire to see an energy independent Europe powered by renewables and long term battery storage. He could be busy further developing battery technology to further enable decarbonization and energy decentra…

maybe he has plans to release a gas-powered cybertruck in a few years

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#289

Post by dabinat »

I have a Tesla Model 3 and it’s the best car I’ve ever owned, but I won’t be getting another when my lease is up, solely because I don’t want to give any more money to Elon. My next car might be a Lucid, but I’ll see what the market is like in a couple of years.

I do find it interesting that people think of Tesla as being a luxury brand though. I mean, sure, the Model S and Cybertruck are expensive, but you can get a Model 3 for $40k (before $7500 federal credit plus whatever incentives your state has). This is lower than the average new car price of $48k and the same as the top-end RAV4. The Model 3 is cheaper than most other electric cars in its class, and is likely the reason why Musk thinks getting rid of the federal credit will hurt his competitors more than him.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#290

Post by buffington »

UndefinedRef wrote: post #2

[flagged]

There's no reason you should be getting downvoted for this, and I say this as someone who loves their Model 3. You're stating a fact about yourself that is, at the very least, loosely relevant to the posted article.

It's like a bunch of people who are a fan of the color yellow got mad when you said you're not a fan of yellow.

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