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Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

itvision.altervista.org

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Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#281

The main criticism I see as valid here is first point: software distribution is tricky. For macOS and Windows you basically have a model where you can go to a website, download a binary, install it, and it runs. Most Linux distros won’t jive with that very well. And because every Linux distro uses a different theme and one of a dozen UI libraries/DEs/etc. the downloaded GUI application will look bad because it won’t…

What macOS provides is that each app is bundled with all the libraries it needs. That is basically what AppImage is on Linux and it works just as well. Most people find it too wasteful so Flatpak has become more popular. At least Flatpak allows apps to share many of the libraries that they both rely on.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#282

I've been patiently trying a distro of Linux every other year for the past 20... Someday. The general trend: Things work well from a native install. When you start installing software and drivers, the OS gets totalled , sooner or later. > What's worse is that software compiled for the current version of Linux X will not necessarily work for the current version of Linux Y. Linux distros insist that all the software mu…

Why in the world would you need to "compile C code"?

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#283
Is there even a Linux community that could express what it wanted from desktop linux in unified, actionable message? I rather doubt it. I mean, the fact that GNOME and KDE still exist as separate entities after 20+ years seems evidence enough.

Some people seem to want a deep-pocketed daddy to come and fix it, but even if such an entity existed, I fail to see how they would achieve any return on their investment. And the community is so fractious/holds such high standards (take your pick) that whatever they do is sure to be criticized from the first byte to the last. It's a rare PM who would relish that fight inside the executive suite and out on the mean streets of the mailing lists.

Other entities? Eh, not so confident. Bodies like the Linux Foundation feel like places where projects go to die (corporations pay a small tax to get a Gold badge, dump some deadweight code, take some tax relief, and burnish a resume). Not seeing any mileage here.

Smaller UI shops like Zorin and PopOS? Doing the Lord's work cleaning and polishing, but in the absence of a clean and stable set of interfaces, it's all very fragile.

HW vendors have no incentive to care since desktop linux is a tiny market. (I find the requirement that desktop linux must work on anything mystifying because there are probably only 5 pc makers that really matter in terms of volume and anyone else can wait and see before committing.) If you are dell, all you really care about is linux on poweredge, and if some weird state government insists on linux to you, well, fine, youll freeze the BOM on a few rounds of Dell Latitude, charge extra, and it'll be fine.

It would be a delicious irony if the best Linux desktop environment ends up being WSL2 after all these years.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#285
I'm surprised no one has mentioned atomic Linux distros yet in this thread. The really hard thing here is that people aren't all talking about the same things. My experience on Arch isn't my experience on Pop. Things on Pop are amazing on my MSI rebuilt PC with Nvidia GPU. I don't even know if I really need to upgrade to NixOS except to satiate my curiosity.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#286
post #93
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you start installing software and drivers, the OS gets totalled I have been using multiple Linux distros for over 20 years (and supporting other people) and this has simply never happened to me. Not even since I started using a distro that is supposedly less stable (Manjaro). > Forcing a user to compile C code is a bad user experience That is why very few distros expect users to do it. Are you thinking of Gent…

> From the point of view of most users, Linux is very similar to iOS or Android - you install software from the "store". I believe the comment you're replying to is stating that Linux (and its app ecosystem) is much more fragmented than iOS and Android. Each distro has a "store" of apps that only reliably work on that distro.

It's a "distribution" of software. People taking care to make a number of programs works together well enough on top of the kernel in order for you to use your hardware. But the build scripts for one works well enough if you're trying to use a less common distro (I shamelessly copied from Debian and Arch for a few software on Alpine).

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#287
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “go to a website, download a binary, install it, and it runs” model has significant security issues. The security issues are twofold. One is that you could easily be tricked into installing malware. Two is that you will never be able to keep up with security updates, leaving yourself vulnerable to being compromised by flaws in network applications. Making that model of software distribution difficult is a feature…

I fully understand that. And yet until you can convince Debian to include a copy of Adobe Photoshop in their repository you will cut off a significant amount of desktop users. How do you propose to solve that problem? (Yes of course the solution is to fund Gimp until it’s better than Photoshop by so much that the industry switches. It was the solution 20 years ago too. Adobe has run away with this market. Photoshop i…

> And yet until you can convince Debian to include a copy of Adobe Photoshop in their repository you will cut off a significant amount of desktop users.

Shouldn't you try to convice Adobe instead? AFAIK, they're already using their bespoke UI and if Sublime can do it, Adobe can sure deploy Photoshop on Linux even if they only want to bless Ubuntu.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#288
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other question is why should any normal person want to run Linux as their primary OS except for philosophical reasons? it's free. it's stable. it's easier to use. it doesn't have adds. it uses less resources. it runs on older hardware. it doesn't contain spyware. it doesn't violate my privacy. it includes more powerful features. it offers more alternatives for the GUI. i can trust it because the kernel has been a…

> it's free. Over the last 25 years I've spent hundreds of hours fighting with its bugs. Not free by a long shot. > it's stable. Anything but. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues > it's easier to use. You must be joking right? A step in any direction and you must use CLI. > it doesn't have adds. Windows neither has "adds". > it uses less resources. Proofs required. > it runs on older hardware. Good luck u…

> What would you like to replace in Windows that's not "replaceable"?

Whatever is powering the start menu ads.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#289

These are a bunch of reasons why the top 1% of the most technical users in the world might not use Linux on their desktop. For everyone else, the reason they don't use Linux on their desktop is because it didn't come installed on it. If somebody does to desktops like what Google did for smartphones, then Linux will finally have its moment.

> If somebody does to desktops like what Google did for smartphones, then Linux will finally have its moment. That's already happened, and Google did it. They are called Chromebooks. They are Linux underneath, use the GNU userspace stack and Wayland for GUI. They have a button that installs Debian, and GUI packages you "apt install" appear in the Chrome app launch folder. Apparently ChromeOS is being swallowed by And…

Fair point, but I think we can measure the success of them in their respective device markets by their market shares. And while ChromeOS was a great attempt, it didn't really disrupt much beyond the US education market.

> That means Android will be powering laptops. Does that make it a Desktop OS? If so, that does the we can count Android's 45% market share of all personal computing devices towards a Desktop OS?

OS market share for a particular device type is typically measured as the respective portion of the OSes that run on that hardware. If you are looking at desktop/laptop market share, you'd only count that :)

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently posting from a Dell Inspiron 3505 which has an 8-core AMD CPU and 6gb of ram. I got it new for roughly $300 and from quickly looking on ebay can be had for under $200 used. I'm waiting on the mail for a $70 Chromebook with 8gb of ram and a 2-core/4-thread CPU to replace this laptop because of a half-damaged charging port. I picked a Chromebook for the 10+ hour battery life, the same reason you chose a M…

I couldn’t run any decent number of Docker containers on that and if I were doing Android development, the emulator would run like trash. Not to mention how many slow bloated Electron apps or Chrome itself runs on that. I definitely couldn’t do any serious development on a ChromeBook. But you said you care about an ad free experience and privacy and you are okay with hardware and an OS by Google ????

I have 16GB of RAM on a 2019 Dell I bought for $140 on ebay and I rarely get past 6GB (mostly browsing and reading pdfs, and the rare WhatsApp tabs). It came with Windows 11 and it was a toaster for the one hour I bear with it. I'm not really keen on privacy, but I draw the line on waste and exploitation.

My MBA is much more ergonomic and user friendly, but it's like being with an annoying roommate that insists on sleeping on the same bed and taking shower with you instead of having an appartment all by yourself

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