Should more of us be moving to live near friends? • Hacker News Board

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#281

Post by DragonStrength » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 3:25 PM UTC

Wytwwww wrote: post #275

DragonStrength wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you haven’t read the context here where Americans are being framed as lacking community values because some small percentage migrate internally for better economic opportunities. The people here who see Americans who have moved to big cities form smaller places are seeing the exception, not the rule, as was pointed out elsewhere with statistics. You’re proving my point exactly: those characterizations, espec…

> Both are based on anecdotes and vibes, not reality. To me, it's all narcissism of minor differences I think most are thinking about a higher proportion of adults living at the same household as their parents in some countries when they say that. However in recent year the proportion in the US got a lot closer to Latin American countries. Then again it probably significantly varies by race, ethnic background etc. wh…

You’re coming across as disagreeing with me, but it’s unclear about what. Your response to the out-of-context bit at the bottom seems to agree with my central statement about the negative framing of American values in the OP, so I’m very confused what your point is.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#282

Post by mlinhares » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 3:27 PM UTC

vel0city wrote: post #136

mlinhares wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminder that there was no cultural preference, this was done (like in other places) to keep the industrial engine running, mainly carmakers. The more roads there are, the more cars people will buy and the more they will drive, this, mixed up with redlining and other racist policies created the environment we live in today. This was not the only way it could have gone, but it ended up being like this due to the gover…

> Reminder that there was no cultural preference, this was done (like in other places) to keep the industrial engine running, mainly carmakers. Sounds like you've barely talked to people living in suburbs. A ton of the people I talk to are very pro-SFH, big easements, lot restrictions, etc. Go to a city council meeting talking about rezoning for higher density. Tell me how all those people are on the car manufacturer…

They didn't want this, they've been made to want this because that's what society expects out of them, due to how public transportation in this country sucks everywhere and the infrastructure in big cities is a joke. Worse, having kids in such places is terrible as childcare is expensive, there are few parks or things to do with kids that don't require you to pay for it, and the city itself isn't made for kids on strollers.

These people are now sicker, sadder, more isolated, and with less access to good jobs and education than before. Now the jobs are far away, requiring hour-long commutes and they can't even buy bread without driving, sometimes for a long time.

Whenever I visit Europe its such a wild experience, being able to take public transportation to many places, having parks all over the place, sometimes parks surrounded by restaurants and bars. It feels vibrant, with kids everywhere. I'm glad I have a large support group here in the US and we've made many friends in the burbs (mainly because they also have kids), but this is not the reality for a lot of folks.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#283

Post by nox101 » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 3:31 PM UTC

seizethecheese wrote: post #157

dlisboa wrote: post #71

Coming from a Latin American the idea of re-starting your life across the country for college and then again for work (multiple times sometimes) while away from family and friends is very foreign. A lot of the conversation around modern American youth feeling isolated, lacking socialization and not building strong relationships seems that stem from this drive. Another thing that’s really weird and related is another…

80% of Americans live near where they were born. This isn’t the root cause of estrangement.

I question whether that's relevant to the topic. Being next door to your friends and family (the article) and being a 10 mile drive from friends and family are not the same thing. In one you see each and interact with each other daily. In the other, probably at most once a month.

I lived 7 miles from a close friend. I liked getting to go to his place once a month or so. He lives in a large apartment complex. One friend moved into the same building. They see each other several times a week and his children go over to visit these friends whenever they feel like it. Similarly another friend moved a block away and they see each other far more regularly.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#284

Post by bluGill » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 3:32 PM UTC

nox101 wrote: post #278

grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Anglo cultures kids aren't usually moving away from home until they are at least ~18 years old. This is not a factor in teenagers feeling isolated. Suburbia and the decline of third places probably play a far greater role in this demographic. It's a common trope on here to lament on how the Anglo cultures don't value family ties strongly enough. I'd argue not overly valuing family ties has been a big competitive a…

what is your definition of "high trust society". I don't consider the USA a high trust society having lived in Japan and Singapore. In Japan and Singapore, I trust that others won't steal my stuff. I trust that I won't be mugged. I trust that my packages won't be stolen. I trust that my car will not be broken into. In the USA and Europe I trust none of that. I've had cars broken into 5 times, bikes stolen 5 times, ca…

The USA is a large place. I've had bikes stolen (last case 40 years ago - the bikes were left outside unlocked for 5 years and only once were any stolen), but that is all from your list. In every place I've lived some of my neighbors never locked their doors when they left. I have always known people who just leave their keys in their car when they leave it. I lock my front door, but the garage doesn't have a lock and there are some expensive things in there.

Which is to say I find the US is a high trust society where I live. I know there are other places where things are much worse.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#285

Post by whatshisface » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 3:34 PM UTC

motorest wrote: post #241

grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Anglo cultures kids aren't usually moving away from home until they are at least ~18 years old. This is not a factor in teenagers feeling isolated. Suburbia and the decline of third places probably play a far greater role in this demographic. It's a common trope on here to lament on how the Anglo cultures don't value family ties strongly enough. I'd argue not overly valuing family ties has been a big competitive a…

> It's a common trope on here to lament on how the Anglo cultures don't value family ties strongly enough. I'd argue not overly valuing family ties has been a big competitive advantage of the Anglo cultures for centuries, eg. moving for opportunity (improved social mobility), ability to connect with outsiders, couple pairing across cultural/geographical boundaries, prerequisite to a high trust society, etc. That line…

Why are you calling that Anglo-Saxon culture? You're clearly talking about the US, not the UK or France... You're not even talking about the whole US, or the majority, just the culture in the larger cities. Even within the US it isn't the people that were born here who traveled the farthest and learned a new language for an opportunity. This conversation is very surreal.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#286

Post by bluGill » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 3:35 PM UTC

dsign wrote: post #252

Dalewyn wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going on a tangent, but I would like to point out to you that Atheism is itself a religion: It's a belief in no god(s), a belief in refuting god(s). I'm Japanese, we (Japan) consider ourselves Non-Religious when we choose to celebrate newborn life at Shinto Shrines, weddings at Christian Churches, and funerals and graves at Buddhist Temples with no dogmatic attachment to any of them as an institution as we go…

I'm going in a tangent too here :-) . One can say that atheism (with lower case) is a lack of religion. And then there is the meaning you suggest: Atheism as a belief in refuting god. That one is not a proper religion, but more like an ideology. Or maybe it is a religion in the sense that it can be used as a moral cornerstone. More than playing with words, not believing in god may be one of three things: irrelevant,…

The first isn't atheism, it is agnostic - no religion and not looking for one, but open to it if you can convince them your religion is right (which you can't because they are not interested in the topic)

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#287

Post by sojournerc » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 3:35 PM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #87

paxys wrote: post #17

Weird that the article frames friends as being constant in life and your career/house/neighborhood/kids' schools/community as totally flexible when practically speaking it's the other way around. It is normal to move away from people you formed bonds with in high school and college. If you are lonely the solution isn't to uproot your life and go after them, but to form new bonds with people who are around you right n…

Making true, lifelong friends is like planting seeds. People you meet and stay in touch with for the next 20 years will undoubtedly by wonderful friends in time, but people you meet today will not be the same as people you have known for 20 years. Living next to someone I have known for the majority of my life(assuming we are still very close) is very different than living next to someone I have known for 6 months. I…

I draw a different conclusion from your analogy though. One should continue to plant those seeds of friendship wherever you are. Friendship is not zero sum.

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is today."

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#288

Post by phil21 » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 3:37 PM UTC

nox101 wrote: post #278

grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Anglo cultures kids aren't usually moving away from home until they are at least ~18 years old. This is not a factor in teenagers feeling isolated. Suburbia and the decline of third places probably play a far greater role in this demographic. It's a common trope on here to lament on how the Anglo cultures don't value family ties strongly enough. I'd argue not overly valuing family ties has been a big competitive a…

what is your definition of "high trust society". I don't consider the USA a high trust society having lived in Japan and Singapore. In Japan and Singapore, I trust that others won't steal my stuff. I trust that I won't be mugged. I trust that my packages won't be stolen. I trust that my car will not be broken into. In the USA and Europe I trust none of that. I've had cars broken into 5 times, bikes stolen 5 times, ca…

The US is slowly (rapidly?) devolving into a low-trust society. What used to be pockets of low-trust are spreading rapidly by my estimation.

It's been sad to watch it slowly get worse every year.

It goes for all things, not just petty/street crime though. Everything from business owners not prioritizing doing good work and building local reputation, employees slacking off as much as possible, investors demanding extreme profits at the expense of everyone else, corporations shipping out entire towns worth of industry to foreign countries, on down to actual crime itself.

It certainly wasn't all roses in the past - but it's a marked change from even my youth. Civic engagement is easy for anyone to see, and that would also be such a symptom.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#289

Post by bluGill » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 3:37 PM UTC

jhardy54 wrote: post #259

Dalewyn wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going on a tangent, but I would like to point out to you that Atheism is itself a religion: It's a belief in no god(s), a belief in refuting god(s). I'm Japanese, we (Japan) consider ourselves Non-Religious when we choose to celebrate newborn life at Shinto Shrines, weddings at Christian Churches, and funerals and graves at Buddhist Temples with no dogmatic attachment to any of them as an institution as we go…

Atheism is not a religion – it’s simply the absence of belief in gods. Religions involve organized systems of practices, rituals, and doctrines, none of which apply to atheism. Not believing in something doesn’t make it a belief system, just like not collecting stamps isn’t a hobby.

Atheism has a large component of refute the existence of God, make practice of region hard for those who are religion and so on.

There is the I don't believe in God and I'm not interested in anything more. However there are a lot of vocal Atheists who have turned it into a religion with practices, rituals and doctrines around proving there is no God and thus I elevate that to a religion.

You can choose where you want to be.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#290

Post by sanderjd » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 3:40 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #44

sanderjd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nailed it. I was going to say that I think more of us should be figuring out how to make connections with the people in the communities we live in. But I do think moving might make sense for lots of people (maybe including me), in order to have a better local community. Instead of moving to be close to past or current friends, I might suggest we should be moving to places where people are like-minded about valuing a…

i'd change that to like-minded and valuing a tight knit community. just valuing a tight knit community is not enough, because if i don't fit in with those people than they won't let me join. personally i am going for friendly and tolerant. likeminded people (for me maybe the kind of people that read hackernews) are hard to find, and are a reason for me to prefer big cities.

Right there with you!