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Can AI do maths yet? Thoughts from a mathematician

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Re: Can AI do maths yet? Thoughts from a mathematician

#281

As someone who has a 18 yo son who wants to study math, this has me (and him) ... worried ... about becoming obsolete? But I'm wondering what other people think of this analogy. I used to be a bench scientist (molecular genetics). There were world class researchers who were more creative than I was. I even had a Nobel Laureate once tell me that my research was simply "dotting 'i's and crossing 't's". Nevertheless, I…

> I even had a Nobel Laureate once tell me that my research was simply "dotting 'i's and crossing 't's".

(。•́︿•̀。)

Re: Can AI do maths yet? Thoughts from a mathematician

#282

Yesterday, I saw a thought provoking talk about the future of of "math jobs" assuming automated theory proving becomes more prevalent in the future. [ (Re)imagining mathematics in a world of reasoning machines by Akshay Venkatesh] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYCT7cw0ycw [54min] Abstract: In the coming decades, developments in automated reasoning will likely transform the way that research mathematics is conceptua…

That was wonderful, thank you for linking it. For the benefit of anyone who doesn't have time to watch the whole thing, here are a few really nice quotes that convey some main points.

"We might put the axioms into a reasoning apparatus like the logical machinery of Stanley Jevons, and see all geometry come out of it. That process of reasoning are replaced by symbols and formulas... may seem artificial and puerile; and it is needless to point out how disastrous it would be in teaching and how hurtful to the mental development; how deadening it would be for investigators, whose originality it would nip in the bud. But as used by Professor Hilbert, it explains and justifies itself if one remembers the end pursued." Poincare on the value of reasoning machines, but the analogy to mathematics once we have theorem-proving AI is clear (that the tools and the lie direct outputs are not the ends. Human understanding is).

"Even if such a machine produced largely incomprehensible proofs, I would imagine that we would place much less value on proofs as a goal of math. I don't think humans will stop doing mathematics... I'm not saying there will be jobs for them, but I don't think we'll stop doing math."

"Mathematics is the study of reproducible mental objects." This definition is human ("mental") and social (it implies reproducing among individuals). "Maybe in this world, mathematics would involve a broader range of inquiry... We need to renegotiate the basic goals and values of the discipline." And he gives some examples of deep questions we may tackle beyond just proving theorems.

Re: Can AI do maths yet? Thoughts from a mathematician

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Function is the most general way of describing relations. Non-deterministic processes can be represented as functions with a probability distribution codomain. Physics seems to require only continuous functions. Sorry, but there's not much evidence that can support human exceptionalism.

Some differential equations that model physics admit singularities and multiple solutions. Therefore, functions are not the most general way of describing relations. Functions are a subset of relations. Although "non-deterministic" and "stochastic" are often used interchangeably, they are not equivalent. Probability is applied analysis whose objects are distributions. Analysis is a form of deductive, i.e. mechanical,…

> Some differential equations that model physics admit singularities and multiple solutions.

And physicists regard those as unphysical: the theory breaks down, we need better one.

Re: Can AI do maths yet? Thoughts from a mathematician

#284
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or is it just white collar workers experiencing what blue collar workers have been experiencing for decades?

So will that make society shift to the left in demand stronger of safety nets, or to the right in search of a strongman to rescue them?

Depends on the individual, do they think “look after us” or do they think “look after ME”?

Re: Can AI do maths yet? Thoughts from a mathematician

#285
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the equivalent to what we are asking the model to do. If you give the model a calculator it will get 100%. If you give it a pen and paper (e.g. let it show it's working) then it will get near 100%.

Citation needed.

Which bit do you need a citation for? I can run the experiment in 10 mins.

Re: Can AI do maths yet? Thoughts from a mathematician

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just thinking about this. I already posted a comment here, but I will say that as a mathematician (PhD in number theory), that for me, AI signficantly takes away the beauty of doing mathematics within a realm in which AI is used. The best part of math (again, just for me) is that it was a journey that was done by hand with only the human intellect that computers didn't understand. The beauty of the subject was…

If you think the purpose of pure math is to provide employment and entertainment to mathematicians, this is a dark day. If you believe the purpose of pure math is to shed light on patterns in nature, pave the way for the sciences, etc., this is fantastic news.

We also seem to suffer these automation delusions right now.

I could see how AI could assist me with learning pure math but the idea AI is going to do pure math for me is just absurd.

Not only would I not know how to start, more importantly I have no interest in pure math. There will still be a huge time investment to get up to speed with doing anything with AI and pure math.

You have to know what questions to ask. People with domain knowledge seem to really be selling themselves short. I am not going to randomly stumble on a pure math problem prompt when I have no idea what I am doing.

Re: Can AI do maths yet? Thoughts from a mathematician

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI can already do a bunch of math. So "AI will not do math for us" is just factually wrong.

Can AI solve “toy” math problems that computers have not been able to do? Yes. Can AI produce novel math research? No, it hasn’t yet. So “AI will not do math for us” is only factually wrong if you take the weaker definition of “doing math for us”. The stronger definition is not factually wrong yet. More problematic with that statement is that a timeline isn’t specified. 1 year? Probably not. 10 years? Probably. 20 ye…

This is a pretty strong position to take in the comments of a post where a mathematician declared the 5 problems he'd seen to be PhD level, and speculated that the real difficulty with switching from numerical answers to proofs will be finding humans qualified to judge the AI's answers.

I will agree that it's likely none of us here will be alive to be proven wrong, but that's in the 1 to 10 year range.

Re: Can AI do maths yet? Thoughts from a mathematician

#288
post #87

Every profession seems to have a pessimistic view of AI as soon as it starts to make progress in their domain. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. Artists seem to be in the depression state, many programmers are still in the denial phase. Pretty solid denial here from a mathematician. o3 was a proof of concept, like every other domain AI enters, it's going to keep getting better. Society is CLEARLY…

It's because we then go check it out, and see how useless it is when applied to the domain.

> programmers are still in the denial phase

I am doing a startup and would jump on any way to make the development or process more efficient. But the only thing LLMs are really good for are investor pitches.

Re: Can AI do maths yet? Thoughts from a mathematician

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just thinking about this. I already posted a comment here, but I will say that as a mathematician (PhD in number theory), that for me, AI signficantly takes away the beauty of doing mathematics within a realm in which AI is used. The best part of math (again, just for me) is that it was a journey that was done by hand with only the human intellect that computers didn't understand. The beauty of the subject was…

If you think the purpose of pure math is to provide employment and entertainment to mathematicians, this is a dark day. If you believe the purpose of pure math is to shed light on patterns in nature, pave the way for the sciences, etc., this is fantastic news.

Well, 99% of pure math will never leave the domain of pure math so I'm really not sure what you are talking about.

Re: Can AI do maths yet? Thoughts from a mathematician

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just thinking about this. I already posted a comment here, but I will say that as a mathematician (PhD in number theory), that for me, AI signficantly takes away the beauty of doing mathematics within a realm in which AI is used. The best part of math (again, just for me) is that it was a journey that was done by hand with only the human intellect that computers didn't understand. The beauty of the subject was…

> Now most will just use some AI. Do people with PhD in math really ask AI to explain math concepts to them?

They will, when it becomes good enough to prove tricky things.
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