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GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

cnbc.com

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Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#281

Post by asynchronous »

rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

I cease to understand how the average HN commentator doesn’t see Tesla as the leader in this space, and my only guess is all the FUD media around them. If you have a Tesla, you know that it’s far and above the best driver-assist software in the entire market, and next place isn’t even close. Sure FSD isn’t Waymo, but it’s entirely different tech and it can drive infinitely more places than the two cities Waymo supports.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#282

Post by paxys »

jcgrillo wrote: post #276
paxys wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

..the exact same way every other traffic rule is enforced? How do you stop cars from driving on the wrong side of the road or running a red light?

Those things are easy to detect. It's much less easy to prevent a simple lane change. Some cities have "bus only" lanes, which cars use anyway, but it's easy to detect them since they don't look like busses. How are you going to detect that my car isn't autonomous?

These are pointless concerns. It is a technically trivial problem. We are literally in a thread about self driving cars. If there is a will to enforce it then it will be enforced.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#283

Post by jcgrillo »

rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

This seems like an industry wide admission that this stuff doesn't actually work, tbh. I've heard similar things from Farley at Ford--advanced lane keeping cruise control systems work, robotaxis don't. Only the "tech" companies are so committed as to double down and try to wish this sci-fi into reality. The car companies are a little more grounded in reality.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#284

Post by alwejrlaw »

jcgrillo wrote: post #241
paxys wrote: post #236

Pretty bad news for the space as a whole. A decade and a half ago there were a dozen+ companies and tens of billions of VC dollars in the space. People were proudly proclaiming the end of driving. Now all but one of them have folded. My thoughts today are the same as they were back then. Self driving will only be solved city by city and street by street. Local governments will need to create dedicated closed-off auto…

If you're going to block off lanes and install sensors why not just lay track and use streetcars? Rail is way more efficient. This has been a solved problem for the better part of two centuries.

As much as I love urban rail, its usefulness scales in direct proportion to population density. Europe has >2x the population density of the US. Japan has 10x the population density of the US. Rail for transit just doesn't make as much sense for the US. It works in a few of our densest cities, but nowhere else. Buses are cheaper, simpler, and easier than rail, but also are useful in proportion to density.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#285

Post by panick21_ »

paxys wrote: post #262
jcgrillo wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to block off lanes and install sensors why not just lay track and use streetcars? Rail is way more efficient. This has been a solved problem for the better part of two centuries.

That's like asking why do cars and roads exist at all when everyone can just use public transit. The answer is that people want cars. They want to drive. They want to be taken directly from point A to point B without needing to walk to transit stops and switch buses/trains and face unpredictable schedules and delays. Autonomous road infrastructure is a sensible, incremental improvement. And in fact city buses will te…

Ok so your problem with fixed infrastructure is that it is fixed, and your solution is to create a slightly different fixed infrastructe that has many of the same problems, but instead its more expensive, less tested, less safe and less efficent?

> The answer is that people want cars.

Actually in many cities in the world, only a minor % of people own a car. And even those that do own a car don't use if for that many trips.

> They want to drive.

Driving in cities is almost universally hated and is proven to cause lots of stress.

> and face unpredictable schedules and delays.

Because in cars its impossible to have unpredictable delays, roads are always completely open and there is never any concention?

In most cities in the world, public transport has less unpredictable delays compared to driving.

> Autonomous road infrastructure is a sensible, incremental improvement. And in fact city buses will tend to benefit from it the most.

A sensible incredmental improvment are regular bus lanes with regular trolley buses.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#286

Post by htrp »

jcgrillo wrote: post #241
paxys wrote: post #236

Pretty bad news for the space as a whole. A decade and a half ago there were a dozen+ companies and tens of billions of VC dollars in the space. People were proudly proclaiming the end of driving. Now all but one of them have folded. My thoughts today are the same as they were back then. Self driving will only be solved city by city and street by street. Local governments will need to create dedicated closed-off auto…

If you're going to block off lanes and install sensors why not just lay track and use streetcars? Rail is way more efficient. This has been a solved problem for the better part of two centuries.

I feel like we did that back in the '50s and then the auto lobby had us strip it all out (in the USA)

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#287

Post by bcoates »

Petersipoi wrote: post #279
bcoates wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are (crappy, dangerous-seeming) genuine full autonomous-assuming-you-don't-count-remote-safety-drivers Waymos on the street where I live, in volume, for a while now. Tesla's equivalent system appears to be 100% vaporware. I don't understand the case for them not being far behind.

That means you live in 1 of like 6 cities in the world. Kind of hard to compare Waymo's approach and Tesla's approach and accurately judge how far ahead Waymo is. Come to my city and you will see exactly 0 Waymo's. And it isn't clear to me if it's much easier for Waymo to scale from 6 cities to tens of thousands of cities or for Tesla to scale from tens of thousands of cities to tens of thousands of cities but better…

The equivalent system is no driver in car at all, and unless there's some trial I don't know about, Tesla's product that does that is announced but not existing anywhere, 0 cities, 0 cars. the definition of vaporware.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#288

Post by bcoates »

spankalee wrote: post #277
bcoates wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are (crappy, dangerous-seeming) genuine full autonomous-assuming-you-don't-count-remote-safety-drivers Waymos on the street where I live, in volume, for a while now. Tesla's equivalent system appears to be 100% vaporware. I don't understand the case for them not being far behind.

Waymo doesn't have remote divers of any sort.

Maybe they should then, I was blaming humans for the unsafe/illegal right turns and deranged maneuvering in the presence of lights and sirens firetrucks.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#289

Post by delabay »

rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

> GM Super Cruise comparable to Tesla FSD

I just spit up my drink. Thank you for that.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#290

Post by paxys »

achierius wrote: post #137
acchow wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably China will always outpay Cruise so you see migration from Waymo to Chinese companies, but not to cruise

Huh? Cruise was paying $400k+ for like 3YoE. I don't think China is paying more than that.

And how much is that $400K of equity worth today?
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