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Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

marinecorpstimes.com

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Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#281

Post by rightbyte »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #264
petre wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did the right thing. He's alive and well, fired from his command instead of deceased like the other servicemen in the OV-22 and FA-18D.

The jet was fine, it kept flying for 64 miles. He probably ejected because there had been a recent osprey crash with causalities and he was scared.

When an user reports buggy or glitchy behaviour I usually don't write it off as cowardice.

I had the same problem in the auto industry. Some times the test drivers were accused of imagining things or sabotaging when the problem could not be recreated.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#282

Post by frereubu »

stavros wrote: post #277
adastra22 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But how can the pilot figure that out, while flying the aircraft? Looking out the window.

So you're in a thing going close to the speed of sound, the thing starts malfunctioning, you look out the window, think "ahh the weather is nice, therefore the machine will probably not kill me" and keep flying? How does that thought process go?

And the weather wasn't nice - "A pilot who ejected from a malfunctioning F-35B in heavy rain over South Carolina last year..."

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#283

Post by dotancohen »

nradov wrote: post #172
suid wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not these fighter planes. They literally need both the propulsion and an active flight computer to fly stably. Without the flight computer, they are uncontrollable. Think balancing a pencil on your finger - if your finger is immobilized or loses control, that pencil will fall almost immediately. The plane's controls are much more complex and unforgiving. And without propulsion, they are just flying rocks. No gliding.

No. As long as it has electrical power and the flight controls are working it can remain stable and glide even with a complete engine failure. Of course the glide ratio is fairly low but it's totally possible for a skilled pilot to make a dead stick landing provided there's a suitable site nearby with acceptable weather conditions.

He was transitioning the aircraft from mode 4 (STOL) to mode 1 (normal flight) when he made the decision to bail. The wings were not generating lift - without computer control the aircraft could have rolled severely.

Pilots eject when the wings are level. If he was facing the possibility of severe uncontrolled roll (or believed he was) then ejecting now before the roll was a good call. At least so far as his wife and children are concerned.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#284

Post by jyounker »

fragmede wrote: post #271
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The jet was fine, it kept flying for 64 miles. He probably ejected because there had been a recent osprey crash with causalities and he was scared.

64 miles sounds quite far, and I've gone quite fast on my motorcycle, but the top speed of the F-35B (that they tell us) is 1,200 mph. At that speed that's just over 3 minutes.

But it didn't land itself, unlike the cornfield bomber: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#285

Post by ExoticPearTree »

fragmede wrote: post #271
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The jet was fine, it kept flying for 64 miles. He probably ejected because there had been a recent osprey crash with causalities and he was scared.

64 miles sounds quite far, and I've gone quite fast on my motorcycle, but the top speed of the F-35B (that they tell us) is 1,200 mph. At that speed that's just over 3 minutes.

According to the report, the jet flew for at least 11 more minutes. No one flies fighter jets at max speed unless absolutely necessary.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#286

Post by ExoticPearTree »

synapsomorphy wrote: post #7

The report criticizes the pilot for ejecting, but also says he did everything by the book (F35 manual), but the book was wrong. And the pilot should've figured that out? Feels like they just need someone to blame for losing the plane.

I read the whole article and from what is described, VMX-1 is where the best pilots of the USMC evaluate aircraft. Which I take it they are test pilots and are expected to perform much better than "standard" pilots are required to.

I guess the USMC expected him to try until the very last moment to recover the aircraft.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#287

Post by jyounker »

db48x wrote: post #142
imglorp wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agree but as usual it was more complicated than this even. Losing controls and instruments in IMC conditions could mean you're straight and level with many minutes to troubleshoot and try things off book, or maybe another attitude like a graveyard spiral towards the deck with seconds to decide. We might not have all the details to armchair fly it.

He didn’t lose the controls _or_ the instruments. He lost his HUD and the primary flight display. But the standby instrument display was still working correctly, and the fly–by–wire system was still accepting input and acting on it correctly. Sure, if those things had failed then ejecting would have been fine. But he didn’t even check them to see if they were still working or not, he just bailed out of a flyable plan…

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I've seen too many software systems that failed in undetectable ways, and the user was disbelieved. The damn thing is fly-by-wire and if the instruments are failing for unknown reasons, then I could easily believe that the controls started glitching too, and that this isn't reflected anywhere.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#288

Post by ExoticPearTree »

dotancohen wrote: post #280
swiftcoder wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe he wasn't familiar enough with the airplane's systems It seems that a highly qualified marine test pilot is unlikely to be unfamiliar with the airplane's systems

He has less than 50 hours in that type.

Until you get to actually fly it for real, you read the manuals a few times over, do countless hours in the simulator and so on.

Those 50 hours can be misleading as to his experience with the aircraft.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#289

Post by dotancohen »

elcritch wrote: post #195
Teever wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kinda makes you wonder about his opinion on the overall reliability of the F-35 if he made that call.

From what I read that seems plausible given the pilot was a seasoned test pilot; so it seems odd he was just being panicky. Imagine just being struck by lightning, loosing main displays, and being at 1200 feet. All on top of flying in a plane with a reputation for electronic failures. I'd be concerned too that the plane was about to freak out. 1200 ft isn't far.

2000 hours isn't all that seasoned, and he had less than 50 hours in that type. He was accomplished all right, but not what one would call seasoned.

In fact, the root of the word "seasoned" means "prepared" and he clearly was not prepared for the events leading to this incident. That through no fault of his own, hence he was not formally disciplined.

The Marines expect someone of his position to perform above and beyond their training. He didn't, so he lost that position with no formal discipline.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#290

Post by ayewo »

fragmede wrote: post #271
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The jet was fine, it kept flying for 64 miles. He probably ejected because there had been a recent osprey crash with causalities and he was scared.

64 miles sounds quite far, and I've gone quite fast on my motorcycle, but the top speed of the F-35B (that they tell us) is 1,200 mph. At that speed that's just over 3 minutes.

From the article:

> The jet had flown for 11 minutes and 21 seconds after Del Pizzo’s ejection, slowly climbing as high as 9,300 feet.

After about 11 minutes, the report said, the jet banked down and started descending to its right, clipping the treetops of a forest along the way before crashing. The report said no one was injured by the crash, but it did damage several trees and crops. The $100 million jet was shredded into pieces and a total loss.

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