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Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

medscape.com

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Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#281

Post by linuxhansl »

DiscourseFan wrote: post #82

Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I’ve had bad experiences sure, but I’m fine now. The issue is that what people generally say, like, “oh sometimes you need to encounter your demons,” maybe that will be temporarily traumatizing—in general people recover from that. The real issues are…more complex. More complex than any diagnoses in the DSM can cover. The brain is very complicated, and everyone’s brain…

I did various journeys - initially alone, then with an experience guide. Mostly to explore a childhood trauma - mild, but traumatic enough to leave me with a stutter.

There were indeed some "bad" trips, although I really do not like the term "bad". IMHO there is no bad journey, it is stuff that needs that wants to be seen.

Nor is the journey itself what counts, one cannot expect a quick fix from a 4 or 5 hour journey. What really counts is the preparation (4 to 8 weeks) before, and integration afterwards (again 4 to 8 weeks). In my case I also paired it with years of therapy and meditation.

It takes a lot of courage, especially to continue after an unpleasant experience (fear, grief and loneliness in my case). In my case I kept coming back and allowed myself more and more to let the bad experiences happen. Finally I just learned to be with what is, and accept things and myself the way it all is. With that came a measure of peace and insights I had not experienced before. Along with visions about the structure of existence.

But I'll stress again, just popping a mushroom won't get you there :)

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#282

Post by yieldcrv »

fsckboy wrote: post #279
yieldcrv wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone considers that, but because they’ll be dead by the time the studies narrow down anything they chose the substance that moves them towards results - or doesn’t everyone can perceive that psychedelic is doing many highly variable things at once and probably shouldn't be recommended, so they just say their experience

the vast majority of people who try psychedelics are not trying to escape untreatable clinical depression, they are doing it recreationally, for a roller coaster ride which they believe connects them with the Almighty or the Unknowable or the Dao or the All-loving Everpresent or the "insert word that sounds profound" These people are inspired—perhaps by the Almighty, i'm not judging—to preach The Gospel of psychedeli…

what point do you think needed to get across to me? did you think you were replying to someone else? my response was sufficiently broad to factor in non-positive and negative experiences and had nothing to do with the hyperbolic praise of some psychedelic users and that community

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#283

Post by threecheese »

AStonesThrow wrote: post #192
DiscourseFan wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was 500ug of LSD mixed with probably 6 or 7 drinks of alcohol. Suffered serotonin syndrome for a few days afterwards. Regardless I’ve heard stories of people having severe long term psychological issues from even relatively light doses, simply because of how their body in particular interacted with the drug.

> Suffered serotonin syndrome for a few days afterwards. What sort of physician diagnosed you with Serotonin Syndrome? What symptoms did you describe to them, and what criteria/evidence did they use to arrive there? Were they able to use differential diagnosis to rule out other conditions? Did you return to the same physician after the symptoms ceased?

Not OP, but the answer is probably what you expected. That being said, as someone prescribed multiple serotenergic drugs concurrently who was knocked on their ass by an errant Vit D dose, the symptoms are pretty obvious (and terrible) and do a good job of convincing one to “not do THAT again”.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#284

Post by reissbaker »

notfed wrote: post #240
thegrim33 wrote: post #173

The results are based on a grand total of 25 people in the psilocybin group and 21 people in the SSRI group. The sample size is pretty small. The methodology is also kind of strange, the psilocybin group got a total of 20 hours of in-person therapy during their 'treatment' and 6 follow-up skype calls, whereas the SSRI didn't get anything other than the 6 month questionaire. Those 20 hours of personalized therapy whil…

If that's true, I'm confused how this is a "double-blind, randomized, controlled trial"? Also, what's up with drug studies always having such a low sample size? Is it really that hard to find people who'd volunteer to get free drugs?

TBH there's no way to have a double blind trial of drugs like psilocybin (Scott Alexander has written a little bit about this [1] with respect to controlled trials for MDMA), for any reasonable dose size of psilocybin. Both the patient and the person administering the drug will become very aware, very quickly, if they're in the psilocybin group.

1: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/05/is-pharma-research-wor...

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#285

Post by Wytwwww »

LocalH wrote: post #160
striking wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psylocybin? Easily? You have to put effort into making an experience with psylocybin meaningful and helpful. It could go wrong very easily, especially for those who are in a difficult situation or headspace. (Speaking from experience.) As for SSRIs? Safe, effective, with a handful of annoying side effects. Straightforward to use, low potential for misuse, requires sustained use for any intended effects. A doctor who…

I guarantee you the number of people who have died from SSRI misuse is higher than the number of people who have died from psilocybin misuse. I'm not referring to things a person may do in a given state, I'm talking about effects from the drugs themselves. I'm not aware of a single recorded person who has taken any dose of psilocybin, and died from "psilocybin overdose". While it may be uncommon, it is possible to ov…

> it is possible to overdose

I'm not sure that's a good metric though. Paracetamol is more dangerous than most highly regulated pharmaceuticals in that way.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#286

Post by neom »

andoando wrote: post #255
neom wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did 3 sessions of 8 grams in silent darkness for 3 weekends in a row and that basically "beat the devil out of me" as they say - it was very very difficult, and a lot of work, but well worth it.I've only felt the "brain haze" (I call it) once since then, I took a gram and went for a long walk in the forest, back to no haze. It's been about 7/8 months and I can feel the "haze" building in my mind again, so I plan to…

8 grams in one sitting? Im not even so worried about the psychological response but even a gram can give me extreme stomach pain and nausea that ruins the whole thing.

8g dried, overnight in lemon juice in the fridge then in the blender, chug a small glass of some type of smoothie from the store, chug the mix, chug a bit more smoothie, get into bed totally naked, wait. I did a looot of research and talked to a lot of people who have been down this trip and decided just to remove the variance of middle dose land and just put myself in "not aware" set. It worked well for me, ymmv.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#287

Post by Wytwwww »

phoronixrly wrote: post #68
HKH2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want people self-medicating with psilocybin, just like I don't want people self-medicating with SSRIs. Which is more dangerous?

The best thing to do is to consult with a physician on matters related to your health.

Why? I mean it certainly depends but as far non severe mental health issues go physicians are just going to checklists since there is hardly anything else they can do (besides long-term therapy).

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#288

Post by Wytwwww »

phoronixrly wrote: post #78
dingnuts wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's easy to say when you forget about the state of healthcare.. everywhere, actually. I was going to say the US but in other countries it's not like you can just pop in for a chat about taking shroomies, either. I'm not sure having a ten minute meeting with a stranger who has a PhD in internal medicine is going to yield useful strategies for curing the existential dread underpinning your depression whether you're…

> it's not like you can just pop in for a chat about taking shroomies You sure can just pop in to discuss options for your crippling depression though? And sorry, I do indeed live in a country with a functioning healthcare system, not the US.

> You sure can just pop in to discuss options for your crippling depression though

To get a prescription for one of the the handful of drugs are are available and are considered to be effective. What else can you learn by just "popping in"?

> with a functioning healthcare system, not the US.

What do you even mean by that?

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#289

Post by Wytwwww »

farts_mckensy wrote: post #65
phoronixrly wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often hear people talk about the risks of psychedelics, which are to be considered, but what’s the risk of doing nothing or withholding the best treatment? The risk is to make things worse. And I know that I am preaching to people that are of the opinion that they know better than the FDA, scientists and doctors and are all for self-medicating based off of the echo chamber here and a few cherry-picked, limited an…

Is there any evidence that psilocybin "makes things worse" or are you just concern trolling?

There are certainly reports and some research showing that developing psychosis is certainly a risk as least for some people.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#290

Post by Wytwwww »

phoronixrly wrote: post #71
farts_mckensy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence that psilocybin "makes things worse" or are you just concern trolling?

The best thing to do is to consult with a physician on this matter, еven if side effects, drug interactions and precautions are readily available and cardiac arrest and death are among them. Idk, is this worse?

What would be the point of that? I'm pretty certain that almost any physician would tell you not to consume psilocybin (especially if you are suffering from mental issues).
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