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UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

bbc.co.uk

281–290 of 296 posts

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#281
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> elevated China's status In 2024 china issued 17% less residence visas than 2019. Maybe. But the trend is down.

What does residence visas have to do with geopolitical power? That’s one tiny variable of many. Should I link you an article about how US immigration hit record lows after the Covid-19 pandemic?

You'll see. China just disappeared their finance minister. Which is something that, you know, successful countries do all the time.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#282
post #261
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what universe does the UK have grounds to have anything to do with governing a region 6000 miles away from home that it seized during the Opium War? A universe that respects the right of the people who live somewhere to chose the government they want? We've all seen the protestors waving British flags there. Abolishing the right of conquest in the early 20th century was one of the great achievements of humanity,…

We’ve seen protestors in all kinds of countries wave all kinds of flags. We all know pragmatically that that’s not how governments are chosen. The fact that the situation is unfair to HK citizens doesn’t have much relation to the fact that there’s no legitimate reason for the UK to have any involvement at this point in time, unless you’re just plain and simple in favor of imperialism. In that case you’d be making the…

> In that case you’d be making the argument that people who more closely align with China who live in North Dakota are allowed to just vote and declare North Dakota to be a Chinese province.

If a majority of legitimate citizens, the people who've lived their whole lives there and made the place what it is, want to join China (and China is willing to accept them), of course they should be allowed to do that. Do you not believe in self-determination? And if you don't believe in self-determination then how can you even object to imperialism in the first place?

> It would hurt the UK more than China.

The second world war hurt the UK more than Germany. But there was a time when the country's integrity was worth something.

> Recognition of Taiwan? What would that change? Western countries already defacto recognize Taiwan and work with them as a close ally. This would be changing vocabulary on some documents and plaques.

Sure, but it's documents and plaques that China apparently cares deeply about.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#283
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK government never wanted to keep Hong Kong. (It may have wanted to pantomime trying to keep it to placate some voters). While the UK did have a long history of legal continuity, it's made a lot of dramatic changes in recent years - the switch to the Supreme Court which has then made some legally bizarre decisions, the complete demolition of the House of Lords over a pretty short period, the efforts to entrench…

> efforts to entrench human rights legislation which have simply no precedent in UK constitutional history at all... How so? UK was instrumental in creating the European Court of Human rights? Surely they did not believe at the time that they are just creating it for everyone else?

The people who created the ECHR were very conscious that they were doing something unprecedented, that would change European jurisprudence dramatically. Indeed that was something they trumpeted.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For even more context, GDP isn't everything.

No but if you don't have a scientific base or money it's hard to be a geopolitical power.

Of course, but I'm not sure how this applies either.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#285
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What exactly is the Mauritian connection to the Chagos Archipelago? I can see where this line of questioning is going but what's the connection between Britain and Chagos or the US and Chagos for that matter?

215 years of British sovereignty? The United States of America has had sovereignty of itself for 248 years, should the USA give up it's sovereignty in North America or do you draw the line between somewhere between 215 and 248? At what point do you say, it is what it is?

215 years of sovereignty Or 215 years of colonialism? Are the displaced people able to vote for UK parliamentary elections? Are they UK citizen?

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#286
post #276
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of crazy things look more reasonable when you realize that your metric for 'crazy' and 'not crazy' is less about gauging the mental state of the person making those decisions, and more about how much/little they upset Western interests.

Invading sovereign nations is pretty crazy. (Said to castigate both western and non-western countries) Sometimes the standards of human decency are global.

If you look at the history of the last 2000+ years in Europe and Asia, invading sovereign nations (or whatever you want to call the equivalent over that period) is pretty much the norm...so not crazy. Is it violating the standard of human decency if that seems to be the norm? Maybe we humans are not as decent as we would like to thing we are.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious difference, is that you're comparing sovereignty over a nation/state's mainland, vs sovereignty over a separate colony, thousands of km away from the mainland (and even used only for military purposes, apparently)

Hawaii then, 3,200 km away from the US mainland, home to one of the largest US navel bases and only part of the US for the last 126 years when they annexed it?

I'm not aware of nations in nearby islands/archipelago who are claiming the territory of Hawaii, so that's one difference.

But for sure, the locals would've appreciated it if the US didn't colonise Hawaii

https://x.com/SilverSpookGuy/status/1836132280806576289

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#288
post #276
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of crazy things look more reasonable when you realize that your metric for 'crazy' and 'not crazy' is less about gauging the mental state of the person making those decisions, and more about how much/little they upset Western interests.

Invading sovereign nations is pretty crazy. (Said to castigate both western and non-western countries) Sometimes the standards of human decency are global.

We never call a Western or west-aligned politician who is doing it 'crazy'.

We have a lot of other negative terms for it, but for a very recent example, nobody in the press (even the press hostile to them) doubted Dubya's or Tony Blair's mental state in 2003.

Somebody opposed to us doing it, is, of course, mentally ill. There's no other explanation for it!

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#289
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its more a sort of shakedown of a ex-colonial power

The UK was shaking down the US for this military base. The whole thing stands as a monument to the decline of the British Empire.

As someone pointed out on Reddit, for the first time in centuries the United Kingdom will no longer be the empire on which the sun never sets.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#290
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is missing the point of the original question, which is - why would a Mauritian feel "relief" at the return of a geographical territory which is extremely far from itself? The claims of the UK or the US are irrelevant to this reasoning. Indeed, I would like to understand the answer to the above question better, since the only reason I can see is that Mauritius as a colony used to govern the islands, and…

> Do the Chagossians support this claim by the Mauritian government? They've complained about not being part to the discussion, but in practice most of them have Mauritian citizenship now, and it should be easier for them to deal with the Mauritian government to reclaim some of their land. It's a lesser-evil situation.

Perhaps things would have turned out differently if the UK had given British citizenship to the Chagossians instead of kicking them out of their islands. After all, this method worked in the Falklands.
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