Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

goethena.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 294 posts

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#281

Post by pllbnk »

lainga wrote: post #80
gregfjohnson wrote: post #78

A person close to me works at a law firm. She was feeling a bit stagnant, so she connected with a recruiter. She got a very solid offer with a significant pay bump. She gave her two weeks' notice to her firm, including appointments with the partners. One of the partners asked her for a half hour. They came back with a massive pay raise, and a promotion to partner if she would stay. She was in a state of shock, but th…

What prevents engineering firms from acting like law firms?

I think engineers tend to overestimate the value they bring. _Most_ companies make money from business deals that are written and signed into contracts, sometimes those deals involve automating stuff, that's where software engineers are useful. If a company loses some rock-star engineer, the automations they worked on don't break immediately, there's some time for other engineers to figure out how it works. If something cannot be delivered in a timely manner according to the contract because engineering branch got weaker after a rock-star left, companies either have to pay some fraction as fines or may agree on deadline extensions, however the contracts have been signed, the money are flowing, all the holes will be plugged eventually by other engineers.

Anecdotally, I have been recently approached by someone who was very eager for me to consult them on the product they were going to build. After a few hours of talking I quickly realized that they don't really need to build anything complex. In fact, my advise was to only focus on the core functions which are very simple and leave the majority of actual work to be done manually by a much cheaper secretary-type role until the product got enough traction to actually benefit from automation.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#282

Post by Izkata »

rsyring wrote: post #149
kaba0 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, this 10x dev myth should just die. There are only at most 2x developers, and most ordinary people are just below the 1x factor.

"Facts and Fallacies of Software Engineering" cited research indicating it can be as high as 28x. To get that number, you have to take into consideration terrible devs who are negative multipliers. I.e. the scale is not 1x - 10x. It's more like -10x - 10x. I've personally experienced development projects where there was easily a -5x - 5x difference between the least and most productive. I've seen productivity improve…

The original research that 10x came from used 1x for "worst", not "average". Their scale was 1x - 10x.

IIRC it was also "within a given team" or some sort of similar scope, not over all developers, which would explain why they didn't see that 28x.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#283

Post by yowlingcat »

> Sep 26, 2021 > 5 min read

Although it was only 3 years ago, from a macroeconomic standpoint, this feels like centuries ago. Since then, the tech industry has weathered several erosion events (SVB implosion, interest rate hikes) and it seems that aside from generative AI (which with the recent NVIDIA drop, may be showing first signs of slowdown), at least the VC funded startup space is at a local minimum in terms of market heat. Anecdotally, I've seen a lot of colleagues I've worked with at previous colleagues in hotter markets struggle with finding their next role for much longer periods of time with much more frustrating processes. The market for candidates seems tougher today than it's been in over a decade; in fact, I'm not sure what the last time was that it was this rough -- perhaps right after the 08 crash?

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#284

Post by _sys49152 »

rightbyte wrote: post #220
Corrado wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy carp! When they took away the free soda at KFC I started updating my resume. I worked at the KFC headquarters for over 10 years and for most of that time they had free soda in the lobby. Then the cafeteria management got turned over to a 3rd party, I'm guessing as a way to save money. Setting aside a food company not managing their corporate cafeteria, this 3rd party wanted to sell sodas and that's really hard w…

Oh dear. I agree with your point, but man, I do not handle free soda at work well. I do comfort drinking way too much.

comfort drinking gets the job done. spend less time thinking about sugar and more about getting work done.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#285

Post by fragmede »

bravetraveler wrote: post #227
rightbyte wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food is holy in a primal way. It pisses people off when you mess with their food, don't invite them for it, etc. Way way way more than what is proportional to the costs. Like, 'pizza for all but the contractor' kind of social transgressions.

Seriously. I have a 'thing' about eating around people... feels gross, prefer not to. You'd think I insulted someone for their choices by opting out I know they mean well with their lunch offer, but I'm barely socialized. I don't want to develop that skill, it's not personal. I'm just firmly independent

What a career, no, life limiting attitude. you do you, but yikes.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#286

Post by vl »

lainga wrote: post #80
gregfjohnson wrote: post #78

A person close to me works at a law firm. She was feeling a bit stagnant, so she connected with a recruiter. She got a very solid offer with a significant pay bump. She gave her two weeks' notice to her firm, including appointments with the partners. One of the partners asked her for a half hour. They came back with a massive pay raise, and a promotion to partner if she would stay. She was in a state of shock, but th…

What prevents engineering firms from acting like law firms?

They actually do.

I had and accepted counter-offer myself and know quite a few people who were in such position.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#287

Post by Corrado »

tasuki wrote: post #271
Corrado wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy carp! When they took away the free soda at KFC I started updating my resume. I worked at the KFC headquarters for over 10 years and for most of that time they had free soda in the lobby. Then the cafeteria management got turned over to a 3rd party, I'm guessing as a way to save money. Setting aside a food company not managing their corporate cafeteria, this 3rd party wanted to sell sodas and that's really hard w…

> Feeling that after lunch malaise? Walk down 5 flights of stairs to get a small Pepsi. Need to talk out some tech problem with a co-worker? Grab a soda together and take a walk. It was great. It sounds like hell. How do you not get fat doing this?

Actually, it was quite the opposite. We would walk down 5 flights of stairs, grab a small soda, and then walk back up them. Sometimes we would walk 1.5 miles around the pond before heading back to our desks. It was a bit of a workout, all told.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#288

Post by bravetraveler »

fragmede wrote: post #285
bravetraveler wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. I have a 'thing' about eating around people... feels gross, prefer not to. You'd think I insulted someone for their choices by opting out I know they mean well with their lunch offer, but I'm barely socialized. I don't want to develop that skill, it's not personal. I'm just firmly independent

What a career, no, life limiting attitude. you do you, but yikes.

Sorry, who are you? Definitely not my employer, family, therapist, spouse, or friend.

You have no idea and are speaking entirely out of turn. I don't need judgement from anyone but them. I'll bite anyway.

We don't all seek the same 'rewards'. My career is great, well known and trusted by many. I'm paid very well. I have a healthy network despite my refusal to aimlessly stuff my face hole. The interviews for my last two offers were technicalities.

The point I'm getting at is, I can be sociable when it matters. This and most things don't. There's benefit to be had. I saved a lot of time, arguably years of learning, by skipping religiously posturing around meals.

Still, thanks for your input, I guess. I hope we're all better served for having endured it. You can keep going on about my life if you'd like, but I'd prefer if you fuck off with your contrived perception.

Limitation of others is the point. Selection. I'm a product of the environment, choosing less.

As far as you know this pulled me from the gutter. Again, fuck off. Don't tell me limiting. You don't know anything about me or the path I had to take.

Your post is basically: "mental health problems, yikes". Let's really talk about limiting. Go be an NPC somewhere else.

Try to be someone damaged people like me would actually want to engage with. It's healthier for everyone.

Or keep trolling. You do you, boo. That's how the phrase generally goes. I can tell you that because people born in my original social class created it, visitor.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#289

Post by shiroiushi »

nxpnsv wrote: post #253
shiroiushi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Getting out of a bad marriage isn't unpleasant at all. A bit traumatic perhaps, but that's like going through the trauma of major surgery so you can have your badly broken leg bolted together so you don't have to get an amputation or die of infection. The feeling of freedom and peace you get after getting out is worth the trauma of divorce. Same goes for getting out of a shitty job with bad coworkers or a bad…

Sure, there is relief and a feeling this was necessary and for the best - but also broken dreams, failing social expectations, broken friendships. I guess I mostly agree with you, but I think such traumas make for unpleasant experiences...

Sure, I agree with all that, but also I think it's simply part of life for many people. Not everyone has everything go well for them in life, and people frequently make bad decisions (I'll freely admit to that myself). What's important is how you handle things afterwards. For another example, look at someone who's a really bad drug addict, but then cleans himself up and turns his life around. Sure, it sucks that he had to go through that bad phase in his life and suffer many years (which could possibly be blamed on himself, though addiction is also a biological failing). But we generally like to celebrate these turn-around stories where someone takes a bad life situation and makes it much better. The ex-drug addict will probably always be scarred from his experiences, and always need to be very careful not to get into that trap again, but usually people are happy for him despite all that.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#290

Post by red_admiral »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #276
tasuki wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feeling that after lunch malaise? Walk down 5 flights of stairs to get a small Pepsi. Need to talk out some tech problem with a co-worker? Grab a soda together and take a walk. It was great. It sounds like hell. How do you not get fat doing this?

So strange how even within the same country our cultures differ enough to have stuff like this which actually disgusts me. Have southerners never heard of coffee? How fat do you have to be to take soda breaks instead of coffee or smoke breaks?

Sugar-free soda is a thing.
Post reply on HN