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OpenAI is good at unminifying code

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281–290 of 321 posts

Re: OpenAI is good at unminifying code

#281
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not only their core strength — it’s what transformers were designed to do and, arguably, it’s all they can do. Any other supposed ability to reason or even retain knowledge (rather than simply regurgitate text without ‘understanding’ its intended meaning) is just a side effect of this superhuman ability.

I see your point, but I think there's more to it. It's kind of like saying "all humans can do is perceive and produce sound, any other ability is just a side-effect". We might be focusing too much on their mechanism for "perception" and overlooking other capabilities they've developed.

Well, yes — absolutely. You could say something similar about any system with complex emergent behaviour. 'All computers can do are NAND operations and any other ability is just a side effect', or something.

However, I do think that in this case it's meaningful. The claim isn't that LLMs are genuinely exhibiting reasoning ability — I think it's quite clear to anyone who probes them for long enough that they're not. I was fooled initially too, but you soon come to realise it's a clever trick (albeit not one contrived by any of the human designers themselves). The claim is usually some pseudo-philosophical claim that the very definition of reasoning is simply 'outputting (at least some of the time) correct sentences' and so there's no more to be said. But this is just silly. It's quite obvious that being able to manipulate language and effectively have access to a vast (fuzzily encoded) database of knowledge will mean you can output true and pertinent statements a lot of the time. But this doesn't require reasoning at all.

Note that I'm not claiming that LLMs exhibit reasoning and other abilities 'as a side effect' of language manipulation ability — I'm claiming there's no reason to believe they have these abilities at all based on the available evidence. Humans are just very easily convinced by beings that seem to speak our language and are overly inclined to attribute all sorts of desires, internal thought processes and whatever else for which there are no evidence.

Re: OpenAI is good at unminifying code

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hinton claims they do reason. I am going to go with Hinton on this.

Hinton's opinions on LLMs are frankly bonkers. Just because you're famous — and intelligent and successful — doesn't mean you can't be completely wrong. Also: what's his rationale? It's no use simply claiming something without evidence. And as far as I (and seemingly most others) can see, there's no such evidence other than that they can sometimes output sentences that happen to be true. But so can Wikipedia — does t…

Does slime mold reason?

Yes, Hinton can be wrong, is wrong on many things like his misunderstanding on Chomsky and language.

But I also think he has spent thousands of hours testing these systems scientifically.

Your last sentence puts a lot of words in peoples mouths. But to continue down that line, fake reasoning and actual reasoning sounds like the Chinese Room. Is that the argument you are making?

We don't understand our own mental processes well enough, so I try to not anthropomorphize reasoning and cognition.

Re: OpenAI is good at unminifying code

#283

The site the post mentions for the original code ( https://reactive.network/hackathon ) is an accessibility nightmare.

The garbled text is included in the tree as relevant, pronounceable, and constantly changing text. Here's Chrome's accessibility tree: https://imgur.com/a/V1589Jr (I'd love if a screen reader user could upload some audio of how awful this sounds, by the by) Please use `aria-hidden="true"` for stuff like this, it just removes the element from the accessibility tree. I've also emailed Reactive a link to this thread. He…

Big props for ARIA attributes - they’re so crucial for differently abled and impaired users. I’ve been combing through our project’s components lately to bring them up to design spec and have been taking a look at our accessibility - it’s so important and so easily missable for most engineers.

Re: OpenAI is good at unminifying code

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hinton's opinions on LLMs are frankly bonkers. Just because you're famous — and intelligent and successful — doesn't mean you can't be completely wrong. Also: what's his rationale? It's no use simply claiming something without evidence. And as far as I (and seemingly most others) can see, there's no such evidence other than that they can sometimes output sentences that happen to be true. But so can Wikipedia — does t…

Does slime mold reason? Yes, Hinton can be wrong, is wrong on many things like his misunderstanding on Chomsky and language. But I also think he has spent thousands of hours testing these systems scientifically. Your last sentence puts a lot of words in peoples mouths. But to continue down that line, fake reasoning and actual reasoning sounds like the Chinese Room. Is that the argument you are making? We don't unders…

> Your last sentence puts a lot of words in peoples mouths.

Well, it’s the most common sentiment I see on both here and (before I gave up) the AI-centred parts of reddit.

It’s not quite the Chinese Room, since LLMs can’t even simulate reasoning very well. So there’s no need to debate the distinction between ‘fake reasoning and actual reasoning’ — there may or may not be a difference, but it’s not the point I’m making.

As for Hinton: I’m sure he has. But inventors are often not experts on their own creations/discoveries, and are probably just as prone to FUD and panic in the face of surprising developments as the rest of us. No one predicted that autoregressive transformers would get us this far, least of all the experts whose decades of work lead us to this point.

Re: OpenAI is good at unminifying code

#285
post #97

Author of HumanifyJS here! I've created specifically a LLM based tool for this, which uses LLMs on AST level to guarantee that the code keeps working after the unminification step: https://github.com/jehna/humanify

Thanks for creating this megafier, can you add support for local LLMs?

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI is good at unminifying code

#286
post #97

Author of HumanifyJS here! I've created specifically a LLM based tool for this, which uses LLMs on AST level to guarantee that the code keeps working after the unminification step: https://github.com/jehna/humanify

Thanks for creating this megafier, can you add support for local LLMs?

Better yet, it already does have support for local LLMs! You can use them via `humanify local`

Re: OpenAI is good at unminifying code

#287
post #97

Author of HumanifyJS here! I've created specifically a LLM based tool for this, which uses LLMs on AST level to guarantee that the code keeps working after the unminification step: https://github.com/jehna/humanify

Looks useful! I will update the article to link to this tool. Thanks for sharing!

Super, thank you for adding the link! It really helps to get people to find the tool

Re: OpenAI is good at unminifying code

#288
post #259
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does not involve rote memorization. There are not tons and tons of data pairs on the web of minimized code and unminified code for llms to learn from. GPT-4 has consumed more code than your entire lineage ever will and understands the inherent patterns between code and minified versions. Recognizing the abstract shape of code sans variable names and mapping in some human readable variable names from a similar patte…

And a human can do it without seeing that amount of code and consuming less energy.

Sure but it’s tedious and time consuming. I like things that eliminate tedium and give me back time.

Re: OpenAI is good at unminifying code

#289
post #97

Author of HumanifyJS here! I've created specifically a LLM based tool for this, which uses LLMs on AST level to guarantee that the code keeps working after the unminification step: https://github.com/jehna/humanify

It's a shame this loses one of the most useful aspects of LLM un-minifying - making sure it's actually how a person would write it. E.g. GPT-4o directly gives the exact same code (+contextual comments) with the exception of writing the for loop in the example in a natural way:

    for (var index = 0; index 
Comparing the ASTs is useful though. Perhaps there's a way to combine the approaches - have the LLM convert, compare the ASTs, have the LLM explain the practical differences (if any) in context of the actual implementation and give it a chance to make any changes "more correct". Still not guaranteed to be perfect but significantly more "natural" resulting code.

Re: OpenAI is good at unminifying code

#290

This is an example of superior intellectual performance to humans. There’s no denying it. This task is intellectual. Does not involve rote memorization. There are not tons and tons of data pairs on the web of minimized code and unminified code for llms to learn from. The llm understands what it is unminifying and it is in general superior to humans on this regard. But only in this specific subject.

Yes, bow down before your god. You people are so weird.

You're in denial. Nobody is worshipping a god here.

I'm simply saying the AI has superior performance to humans on this specific subject. That's all.

Why did you suddenly make this comment of "bowing before your god" when I didn't even mention anything remotely close to that?

I'll tell you why. Because this didn't come from me. It came from YOU. This is what YOU fear most. This is what YOU think about. And your fear of this is what blinds you to the truth.

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