I don't understand what the advantages are over Servo's inbuilt web browser¹. So far they look the same when opening but the inbuilt web browser is more stable (I see rendering bugs with Verso and it panics when entering a domain without the http(s):// prefix).
Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
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Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#282As Mozilla chose to abandon it, is Firefox still using servo?
Bits of the servo project were integrated into FF/Gecko in Quantum (https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/introducing-firefox-quan...) - there's shared work where improvements in either end can help either.
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#283So we will, in ~5 years time have two new browser, one in Rust and one in Swift. I hope in the process of doing it we will find new ways of doing things.
> I hope in the process of doing it we will find new ways of doing things. HTML & CSS themselves have become a major bottleneck to quality and creativity. The arcane layout model, the baggage of backwards compatibility, the cognitive dissonance — played out over decades of design-by-committee — between "this is a document engine" and "this is an app engine." The rendering-thread-is-the-main-thread architecture of JS…
> These little bits of jank are why consumers can recognize webview-wrapped apps vs. native apps.
That and, of course, the half-page box telling you how much better off you'd be if you were using the app.
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#284I don't understand what the advantages are over Servo's inbuilt web browser¹. So far they look the same when opening but the inbuilt web browser is more stable (I see rendering bugs with Verso and it panics when entering a domain without the http(s):// prefix). ¹ https://servo.org/download/
Different project scopes. Servo's browser is just intended for testing. It recently got an address bar. Verso seems to aim for more features.
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree. There has never been a better markup language. HTML allows precise control of atomic elements that make up a component. It has been the best thing for accessibility we ever came up with.
It sounds like we agree about the good parts of HTML. > There has never been a better markup language. > It has been the best thing for accessibility we ever came up with. I observe past tense in both sentences above. So perhaps we agree, the salient question is: is it the best thing we can come up with? With a focus on the future. I argue we can do better, while celebrating and building off of what's great about the…
I can imagine no better way for readability and accessibility than a text-first representation of content, which is what HTML is. I will even argue that having the modern web emerge from a text-content first approach is the best thing that could have happened to us.
All other content representation infrastructures that weren't text first, like java applets or flash died because they were no match for HTML.
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
HTML and CSS is the worst layout system except all others. But actually, HTML and CSS is pretty good considering the problems is solves.
> HTML and CSS is pretty good considering the problems is solves. Agreed: pretty good. Shouldn't we pursue excellence?
We do. Work on HTML and CSS is still in progress.
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many times are they going to rewrite the site? And how can you see the Lit versus React version, is there another link for it?
There is old.reddit.com, reddit.com and new.reddit.com. new.reddit.com is not the same site as reddit.com!
Why do you see a difference? new. just redirects to www. for me.
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#288It's great to see the attention to servo growing - the number of people starring servo on gh just keeps going up! There's a chart on https://toot.cafe/@bkardell/112931971129556513
One big reason to want change is to change the funding model that currently supports the existing browser projects, which isn't great and is threatened too...
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#289Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not really a question of fairness. The existing codebase is C++, the new stuff is Swift. Hence the comparison. I’ve written both Rust and Swift while being an expert in neither. I wouldn’t say Swift has no pluses in comparison, reference counting is often a lot easier to reckon with than lifetimes, for one. I’m actually curious what a large multithreaded Swift codebase looks like with recent concurrency improvem…
> Rust’s async story isn’t actually that great I agree. People's perspectives differ. It abhor `async/await` in Rust. It has poisoned the well IMO for asynchronous Rust programming. (I adore asynchronous programming - I do not need to pretend my code is synchronous) But that is taste, not a comment on poor engineering! The lack of the borrow checker in Swift is what makes it approachable for newcomers, as opposed to…
Reference counted objects have deterministic lifetimes, like Rust or C++. Garbage collected languages don't have that. Essentially a reference counter automates some* of the ideas of the borrow checker, with a runtime cost as opposed to a compile time one.
The great thing about automatic reference counting is you can elide the incrementing and decrementing a lot of the time. Stronger guarantees, such as saying "this object is single-threaded" lead to even more optimizations.