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Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

nytimes.com

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Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#281

Post by nabla9 »

jjallen wrote: post #262
kragen wrote: post #217

> Much of what is categorized as post-traumatic stress disorder may actually be caused by repeated exposure to blasts. that is to say, it's actually shell shock? as in, actual physical shock from actual shells? george carlin would be so proud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc the article also mentions that they'd all trained extensively in diving deep underwater, which is also known to cause brain damage, b…

Rifles would never do this. They probably usually/always wore ear protection during training. Even if not it wouldn't do it. Many civilians fire guns throughout their lives, often without ear protection. This would take a much bigger explosion.

If you have been firing a whole day, you definitely fell funny in the head.

Ear protecting does not protect brain much. It protects hearing. Brain heals from very mild damage when there is time to rest, but when you shoot all day, day after day, the damage can accumulate. One already recognized problem area is the show wave getting between helmet and skull. It can amplify the impact.

Nobody knows what the impact from very frequent rifle training is. Very people few do that. Once a month in the range is probably not enough.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#283

Post by krisoft »

p51-remorse wrote: post #55
jrmg wrote: post #46

Artillery crew members who fired thousands of rounds in combat came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis Could this problem also be affecting civilian gun enthusiasts? Or is the order of magnitude of the exposure just wildly lower compared to the military, even in the most enthusiastic?

If you ever get the chance, go shoot some small caliber weapons. I think everyone should at some point to have a baseline in their head for what guns are. Plus, I think it’d be good for people to know you can become really hard to hit by all but the best shooters by… walking away slowly in a zigzag. Near impossible if you run. And then if you have a chance to be around some small artillery, do that too. It’s hard to…

> you can become really hard to hit by all but the best shooters by… walking away slowly in a zigzag. Near impossible if you run.

Idk if i would trust my life with that. What if they just spray a bunch of bullets in the general direction I am? Also what is the minimum distance where this tactic becomes effective? I just can’t imagine that zigzagging helps that much when you are 2 meters away from the shooter. And then there is the question of what is the typical distance between the shooter and the victim in most gun violence scenarios. Would not be surprised if that is inside the “zigzag helps you” distance.

Besides… how would going to a range and shooting guns help one learn this information? It feels what you really would need is someone practicing running away from someone with murderous intent to get an intuitive understanding of what you are claiming. And of course people are reluctant to practice that.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#284

Post by jack_riminton »

mathsmath wrote: post #51
jrmg wrote: post #46

Artillery crew members who fired thousands of rounds in combat came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis Could this problem also be affecting civilian gun enthusiasts? Or is the order of magnitude of the exposure just wildly lower compared to the military, even in the most enthusiastic?

I think it depends on the shockwave. Maybe someone can math it out, but it’s like the sound leaf blower makes vs standing right next to a jet engine. I have never seen a shockwave on the ground behind a “normal” firearm, but it seems commonplace with artillery.

Ex artillery officer here, the shockwaves from firing artillery can be so powerful they can knock you off your feet if you're standing in the wrong place at the wrong time and caught unawares

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#285

Post by immibis »

benterix wrote: post #229
logicchains wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Historically, the rationale for excluding women from the draft was that they weren't eligible to serve in combat roles, voluntarily or otherwise Historically countries didn't let women fight in wars because they didn't want their civilisation to die out. If a country loses a double-digit percent of its men it can still repopulate just as quickly, because one man can make multiple women pregnant, while if it loses it…

Well, supposing this is true, the situation has changed dramatically - women just don't want to have babies in general, globally. And I doubt a war or some patriotic duty would change their minds.

They still want to have sex with sexy people, and many people, when they're in the mood to have sex with sexy people, don't want to use protection. And some of those people who were not in the mood for protection also don't have access to abortions, and some others actually want to raise children by themselves for some reason.

This is the actual process of human natural selection, and it's not much influenced by laws and things like that, no matter how hard the law tries.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#286

Post by vasco »

enugu wrote: post #236
vasco wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the destructive wasteful thinking of "every little bit helps". 80/20 can be applied to almost everything and looking at the second top factor of anything is a waste of time until you properly looked at the first and can't do anymore.

In a multi-stage process, even if you fix the cause with 80% responsibility, the outcome may not improve by much, as there is failure now at another stage. Of course, fixing that single cause is still progress.

Then it didn't have 80% responsibility and you failed to identify the bottleneck, it just means you identified a local optimisation, which is again "every little bit helps" thinking - what you should do when thinking about queueing systems (or multi-stage) like you describe is to identify the bottleneck. An improvement on the bottleneck should directly translate to an improvement to the end result.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#287

Post by fransje26 »

nabla9 wrote: post #279
kragen wrote: post #217

> Much of what is categorized as post-traumatic stress disorder may actually be caused by repeated exposure to blasts. that is to say, it's actually shell shock? as in, actual physical shock from actual shells? george carlin would be so proud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc the article also mentions that they'd all trained extensively in diving deep underwater, which is also known to cause brain damage, b…

.50 cal sniper rifles and shoulder launched weapons like Carl Gustaf, the M72 LAW or the AT4 can. Firing a rifle may or may not cause shock waves that are strong enough. If you have been firing a whole day you definitely feel funny in the head.

> If you have been firing a whole day you definitely fell funny in the head.

This should really be a big, fat, red flag that something is not quite right..

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#288

Post by immibis »

exe34 wrote: post #203
moomin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask anyone with half a brain who sincerely believes in gender equality if men should take a pay cut and they’ll say no, women deserve what the men are paid. The draft should work the same way.

i thought the "gender pay gap" was due to different jobs and amount of time worked - otherwise companies would hire only women and have to pay out way less in wages.

It could be, but is that really an excuse? I mean, one couldn't really justify the pay gap in slavery by saying the slaves were working different jobs to the free people, either.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#289

Post by benterix »

immibis wrote: post #285
benterix wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, supposing this is true, the situation has changed dramatically - women just don't want to have babies in general, globally. And I doubt a war or some patriotic duty would change their minds.

They still want to have sex with sexy people, and many people, when they're in the mood to have sex with sexy people, don't want to use protection. And some of those people who were not in the mood for protection also don't have access to abortions, and some others actually want to raise children by themselves for some reason. This is the actual process of human natural selection, and it's not much influenced by laws…

> and many people, when they're in the mood to have sex with sexy people, don't want to use protection.

I don't believe not using a condom with a Tinder date is an option, at least in the West. No matter how attractive and insisting the male is, a woman knows she is the one to bear the consequences. Even if they're on a pill, STDs are still a thing, so why take the risk.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#290

Post by adrianN »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #239
seventytwo wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not either/or. The psychological shit is real, but the physical damage to the brain is real also. Both things are true.

A lot of the medication for psychological issues is aimed at altering the bio chemistry in the brain to mitigate physical problems. The reason that stuff works is because the issues are physical and not imagined. It's also true that certain disorders (e.g. psychosis) actually cause brain damage when left unchecked. This technically is not a single thing but more like a group of disorders with widely varying symptoms.…

The distinction between physical and psychological problems just betrays our abysmal understanding of how the brain works.
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