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Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

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Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are in Myanmar, PHP or many other countries, you are SoL Okay, but this is not the same as "outsourcing your customer service to taxpayers".

If it pleases you, feel free to ignore this sentence. Instead focus your attention to the first sentences of the response. A plumber is not a firm the size of an economy, with bad customer support.

> A plumber is not a firm the size of an economy, with bad customer support.

Neither of those things is "outsourcing customer support to taxpayers".

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big companies not paying court fees is not a thing in any state.

Also big companies not paying court fees in the state they have a ton of assets in is not going to be a thing either. No way FaceBook is going to let somebody foreclose on their data center over court costs.

I think I remember that California is a tilling state? That'd be epic to have the Sheriff auctioning Meta assets from their own doorstep.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean "fair"? To me the idea of free/consensual exchange (backed by court-mediated disputes and bankruptcy protection) most resembles "fair". If you like a service, use it. If you don't, don't. The (quite small) risk of falling through the cracks and ending up hard stuck is just something one risk-accepts when signing up to a service and maintaining important data there. Your risk management is entirely yo…

Their main point was about software purchases, where consensual exchange needs the ability to refund when it doesn't work. It's good to impose refunds. > The (quite small) risk of falling through the cracks and ending up hard stuck is just something one risk-accepts when signing up to a service and maintaining important data there. Why should it be? Fuck that! > I would never want a paternalistic government dictating…

> Why should it be? Fuck that!

It's just part of doing business. Know who you're transacting with, pay attention to the specifics of your agreement, and do your due diligence. This is very basic stuff. If you have a dispute, then it gets resolved in court. That's literally what courts are for. If our courts can't keep with demand, we should fix that problem.

> The government wouldn't dictate your actions at all here.

They are, they're saying that the companies I transact with must have customer service/refund/consumer protection level above x. I'd like to choose my own risk level when transacting with others. If I want a (presumably cheaper) deal with a fly-by-night, high-risk, vendor why should anyone else have the right to stop me? It's my risk to take.

It's the same argument as with credit. If I want to borrow money at an "usurious" rate (presumably because no one else will lend to me), why should anyone else stop me? It's my risk to take and my bankruptcy on the line.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#284
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I half-agree with the above, which is that loser-pays is a good system and it's necessary to stop enabling companies. The problem with your theory is that market forces incentivize firms to take action that reduce everyone's profits/benefits so long as the action is individually profitable for the company. Which is why there are "lemon laws" on selling used cars or food regulations. The used car industry as a whole b…

Sidenote: car sales in general are not ethical. When you go to the dealer & talk to a salesperson, and subsequently talk to the $ guy, you will be required to sign a piece of paper stating that you cannot derive ANY claims on what the salesperson told you, except those written down on that form. And that form is empty. Also, I wish there was a nationwide requirement for warranty. Not that I have a problem with sellin…

Aren’t there obd2 readers that will dump this information?

And if the representations form is empty why don’t you just write down all the things the dealer told you and then offer to buy the car? At least you’d know which sellers are knowingly lying to you.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't have to make these changes all at once. I agree doing so would be somewhat disruptive. We can roll back the aid over a period of say 5 or 10 years, giving workers (and companies) time to figure out what to do. We don't need to give companies time to figure out what to do. We already know their solution, because it's the same playbook they've always used: change no business practices, and spend a fraction o…

My argument isn't that corporations are people. My point is that the government should never have been given the power to redistribute wealth the way it does today. It has not always had this power. And had the constitution been slightly clearer , it would not have this power today. No amount of lobbying would change that. I am looking at reality, namely the reality of the US before the aforementioned decision giving…

> And had the constitution been slightly clearer, it would not have this power today.

When you say the government it seems like either you’re forgetting about the states, or you are not giving the tenth amendment sufficient weight in your calculation. Or something else?

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument isn't that corporations are people. My point is that the government should never have been given the power to redistribute wealth the way it does today. It has not always had this power. And had the constitution been slightly clearer , it would not have this power today. No amount of lobbying would change that. I am looking at reality, namely the reality of the US before the aforementioned decision giving…

> And had the constitution been slightly clearer, it would not have this power today. When you say the government it seems like either you’re forgetting about the states, or you are not giving the tenth amendment sufficient weight in your calculation. Or something else?

I'm not! The nice thing about states is there are so many of them, and it's pretty easy to move state. Also as an American you have a right to live in any state you choose. None of these things are true at the national level.

I'm all for states experimenting with socialism or any other policy (eg. abortion rights), since these experiments are relatively safe (people can and will just relocate) and cheap (changing policy is easier on a small scale). That's the beauty of the American (eco)system. Government is fundamentally a local concern. What I am vehemently against is the federal government having any sort of broad authority in this regard.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't have to make these changes all at once. I agree doing so would be somewhat disruptive. We can roll back the aid over a period of say 5 or 10 years, giving workers (and companies) time to figure out what to do. We don't need to give companies time to figure out what to do. We already know their solution, because it's the same playbook they've always used: change no business practices, and spend a fraction o…

My argument isn't that corporations are people. My point is that the government should never have been given the power to redistribute wealth the way it does today. It has not always had this power. And had the constitution been slightly clearer , it would not have this power today. No amount of lobbying would change that. I am looking at reality, namely the reality of the US before the aforementioned decision giving…

> My point is that the government should never have been given the power to redistribute wealth the way it does today. It has not always had this power. And had the constitution been slightly clearer, it would not have this power today. No amount of lobbying would change that.

Half the founding fathers owned slaves, and all of them agreed to count humans as 3/5 of humans in order to grant slave states 5/3 the representation of non-slave states. I'm not particularly concerned with their intentions, and I also find it strange that you'd look to them as some sort of beacons of liberty.

I read your comment about wanting states to have more power and I agree with that, but that's not the reality we live in. If we're looking at policies that are a way forward, realistic support for the poor is going to have to come from states first before we remove federal support. Meanwhile, it seems you're just fine with letting poor people starve to death, so maybe state's rights isn't your opinion that's most concerning at the moment.

> It is my fundamental liberty that is being violated by forcing me to contribute to the maintenance of strangers. I would like the freedom to opt out of this mandatory insurance scheme.

Well if you don't think you benefit from society, then you lose nothing by removing yourself from society. There are plenty of right-libertarian paradises like checks notes Sudan where you can go live out your self-reliance fantasy without having to persuade the rest of us to participate. I'll welcome you back when you need old-age care and want to rely on our tyrannical medicare.

It's a bit strange that the largest forms of welfare are corporate welfare, yet people concerned about welfare redistributing wealth always seem to target redistribution to poor people. You're concerned about food programs for minimum-wage Walmart workers taking your hard-earned money when the entire SNAP program cost about $57.1 billion in 2018, while the corporate benefits to the GM corporation alone ran between $50-80 billion and we can't get a more exact number because that's not even transparent.

> It's not compassionate to force your view of compassion on others. It's tyrannical. In the vein of "If you're against gay marriage, don't get gay married": if you want to help people, contribute to charity. Don't force your views on others.

You're trying to present it as if any law that isn't unanimously agreed upon is tyranny, but that's just unavoidable--any attempt to influence the laws is enforcing your will on others. That includes your wanting to remove welfare programs. Other people want those programs, you want to enforce your will on them by removing them. Tyranny!

Tyranny is when a single person or small group of people have absolute authority. You don't get to expand that words meaning to use as a scare word for any policy you don't like. When a representative democracy chooses laws, that's just what the beacon-of-freedom constitution you like intended.

I tend to think that corporations holding people's basic needs like food and shelter ransom unless they do what the company wants is a more obvious form of tyranny than the miniscule portion of your taxes that go to feeding people.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument isn't that corporations are people. My point is that the government should never have been given the power to redistribute wealth the way it does today. It has not always had this power. And had the constitution been slightly clearer , it would not have this power today. No amount of lobbying would change that. I am looking at reality, namely the reality of the US before the aforementioned decision giving…

> My point is that the government should never have been given the power to redistribute wealth the way it does today. It has not always had this power. And had the constitution been slightly clearer, it would not have this power today. No amount of lobbying would change that. Half the founding fathers owned slaves, and all of them agreed to count humans as 3/5 of humans in order to grant slave states 5/3 the represe…

[dead]

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their main point was about software purchases, where consensual exchange needs the ability to refund when it doesn't work. It's good to impose refunds. > The (quite small) risk of falling through the cracks and ending up hard stuck is just something one risk-accepts when signing up to a service and maintaining important data there. Why should it be? Fuck that! > I would never want a paternalistic government dictating…

> Why should it be? Fuck that! It's just part of doing business. Know who you're transacting with, pay attention to the specifics of your agreement, and do your due diligence. This is very basic stuff. If you have a dispute, then it gets resolved in court. That's literally what courts are for. If our courts can't keep with demand, we should fix that problem. > The government wouldn't dictate your actions at all here.…

> It's just part of doing business. Know who you're transacting with, pay attention to the specifics of your agreement, and do your due diligence.

Most industries don't have the pattern of blocking people on a whim. It should not be a part of doing business just because big tech companies find it easier. And due diligence doesn't work for proprietary social media. There are no proper alternatives because they don't interoperate.

To put that first point another way, lack of capricious banning and similar has been a business norm until now and hasn't been a legal issue, but if companies with millions of customers are going to cause problems then we should collectively bargain their ability to access those millions of customers against those basic standards.

> That's literally what courts are for. If our courts can't keep with demand, we should fix that problem.

There is a huge amount of friction to go to court. I sure don't want every business in the world to be encouraged to ride the edge of "barely not worth suing".

Solving that friction is not feasible.

> It's my risk to take.

It's hard to measure that risk, and if everyone has to spend lots of time taking care of due diligence for every purchase then that's pure waste that hurts everyone. Purely free markets depend on everyone having sufficient information and that doesn't fit the real world.

And if the fly by night vendor makes a lot of sales by being 1% cheaper, from people that didn't intentionally accept the risk, they take market share and it's harder to find a competent vendor.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#290
post #82
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, conversely, it also means that people in other countries who have genuinely lost access to their account have no recourse.

They should go to court in that country.

It doesn't help them at all unless Meta also goes there.
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