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Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

independent.co.uk

281–290 of 500 posts

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just false. The main piece of evidence -- the death figures published by La Couture -- which was being widely cited, had to be retracted after Chomsky fact-checked it. The author himself said in the retraction something to the effect of "it doesn't matter what the numbers are". As for "Gentle Land" he supports his claim that "[their] scholarship collapses under the barest scrutiny". He writes: "To cite a few…

Chomsky's entire shtick was to start from the belief that the US is evil and that any evidence that might be favorable to US positions is suspect, then searching for contrary evidence, no matter how questionable, to show this was the case - even if it means manufacturing or distorting it. Olle Tolgraven? He said the Khmer Rouge were shooting people during the ordered mass evacuation, something Chomsky left out. He al…

> Chomsky's entire shtick was to start from the belief that the US is evil and that any evidence that might be favorable to US positions is suspect

His position is that 1. people distort facts to exaggerate crimes of their enemies and minimize their own crimes and 2. we are primarily responsible for our own actions not the actions of others. Both of these things are very easy to understand in any other context.

If you follow those precepts then you would focus on your own sides' lies and crimes which might naively be viewed as "anti-US" bias.

> Olle Tolgraven? [...]

Chomsky never argues that there wasn't any evidence of killings and seems to accurately describe Tolgraven's account: "A Swedish journalist, Olle Tolgraven of Swedish Broadcasting, said he did not believe there had been wholesale executions. But he said there was evidence the Khmer Rouge had shot people who refused to leave their homes in a mass evacuation ordered the first day of the takeover. " (Los Angeles Times, May 9, 1975). (c.f. Chomsky: "who denied the existence of wholesale executions").

> He pointed to Hildebrand and Porter [...]

I will have to read the book myself but looking at the references it does look like it has a "wide range of sources".

> he invented citations to J.J. Cazaux and Schanberg

Just to be clear: You are saying that he fabricated citations? Can you tell me the specific ones?

> Chomsky claimed publications like the Economist have "analyses by highly ... but rather a letter from a reader in response to that article.

He writes "have provided analyses by highly qualified specialists". I assume he's referring to the letter he describes himself in the subsequent paragraph from, "an economist and statistician for the Cambodian Government until March 1975" who "visited refugee camps in Thailand and kept in touch with Khmers" and who relayed conversations from a "European friend who cycled around Phnom Penh for many days after its fall" and who you misleadingly describe as merely "a reader". Perhaps you could object to the phrase "provided analyses" if he hadn't described the analyses himself in detail in the very next paragraph.

---

I would re-iterate the point that the La Couture numbers were fabricated and had to be retracted; and the CIAs own numbers did not support allegations of genocide. Despite this the La Couture numbers were widely cited (and the CIA numbers were not). That alone proves the point that Chomsky was making and which I described at the beginning. When claims suits our foreign policy elite no evidence is required, when they don't no evidence is possible.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#282
post #71

I love Noam Chomsky so much. To me he is epitome of what a rational caring intellectual should be. Number one, he strives for the truth and while can have intellectual blind spots, isn't afraid of calling them out. We had him has a guest speaker for an internal presentation at Google and of course we had some hyper-rational libertarian eastern block swe kid who was going to take him down and Noam was super respectful…

> I love Noam Chomsky so much. I don't. There are some things out there that are up for debate. But not Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Chomsky, for some weird reason, chose to take Russia's side. Edit: To be sure, I wish him full recovery and many more happy years. https://www.e-flux.com/notes/470005/open-letter-to-noam-chom...

I think matters of geopolitics and war especially must be up for debate.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#283
post #71

I love Noam Chomsky so much. To me he is epitome of what a rational caring intellectual should be. Number one, he strives for the truth and while can have intellectual blind spots, isn't afraid of calling them out. We had him has a guest speaker for an internal presentation at Google and of course we had some hyper-rational libertarian eastern block swe kid who was going to take him down and Noam was super respectful…

[flagged]

What an absurd comment. How do you even hold a war criminal and talking head equal?

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#284
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would then be a good example of socialism?

Given that it's just another -ism, brain farted by some random french aristocrat in the eighteenhundreds-something if I remember correctly, and like all other -isms designed to control the population and steal the profit. All of them? The core ideas are awesome, but then the same could be said of Democracy; any idea force fed from the top is going to have the same kind of shit sandwich quality, the rainbow madness is…

Democracy and socialism aren't categories of a kind.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chomsky, for some weird reason, chose to take Russia's side. This is a mischaracterization. He explained Russia's stated motivation for invading Ukraine, that it felt threatened by NATO's continual eastward encroachment and breaking of promises not to do so. That's different than endorsing the invasion, which he did not.

The problem is that's a false narrative. There were never any promises, and Putin barely even cared that it resulted in Finland and Sweden joining NATO. Because Russia's stated motivation for invading Ukraine was never Putin's actual reason, which is basically an emotional desire for historical greatness by reclaiming Russia's lost empire, combined with war always being an excellent mechanism for staying in power and…

But how do you know so clearly that the one thing is a lie and the other is the truth?

Even if you reject the "encroaching NATO" narrative, what makes "Putin just woke up one day and decided that remaking the Soviet Union and/or the zarist Russian Empire would be a great thing to do in the 21th century" the more plausible hypothesis?

What information do you have that Mearsheimer doesn't?

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#286
> The Russia-Ukraine crisis continues unabated as the United States ignores all of Russian President Vladmir Putin’s security demands and spreads a frenzy of fear by claiming that a Russian invasion of Ukraine is imminent.

> February 4, 2022

https://chomsky.info/20220204/

Questions of human conflict are incredibly complex, but occasionally life gives you a freebie. Occasionally, things actually are black and white, there are good guys and bad guys and you should not support the bad guys. If you had trouble getting this one absolutely dead simple case right, maybe you should not bother having an opinion on these matters at all.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#287
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same! I emailed him asking for his thoughts on robotics and anarcho-communism and he replied pretty promptly. He said it was an important subject and that he was moving offices (this was his move to Arizona), but I could ask again another time. I never quite had the time to prepare for what I would have asked for, some kind of discussion I could record, which he was doing a lot at the time, but I was very happy just…

What makes you believe this would work? Specifically any form of anarchism? Have you seen groups of people operate for large periods of time successfully like this? Anything I've looked into shows me human nature would make any anarcho-anything system fail due to infighting.

A lot of the US government would be called anarchist if it was a proposal from a radical rather than the current state of affairs:

1. Criminal trials via random lottery of jury with the charged being viewed as innocent until proven guilty.

2. Checks and balances, where governmental power is intentionally limited and weakened.

3. A system of federated governments that elect representations, with a design favoring minority members of that federation.

Anarchism is always a balancing act between legitimate power and limitations on that power. Most forms of Anarchism do not reject all forms of power as illegitimate but rather place a heavy burden of proof on the claim that legitimate of the use of power.

I disagree with a lot of what Chomsky has said but I do think his definition of anarchism was very well stated:

"Well, anarchism is, in my view, basically a kind of tendency in human thought which shows up in different forms in different circumstances, and has some leading characteristics. Primarily it is a tendency that is suspicious and skeptical of domination, authority, and hierarchy. It seeks structures of hierarchy and domination in human life over the whole range, extending from, say, patriarchal families to, say, imperial systems, and it asks whether those systems are justified. It assumes that the burden of proof for anyone in a position of power and authority lies on them. Their authority is not self-justifying. They have to give a reason for it, a justification. And if they can’t justify that authority and power and control, which is the usual case, then the authority ought to be dismantled and replaced by something more free and just." - Noam Chomsky

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#288
post #71

I love Noam Chomsky so much. To me he is epitome of what a rational caring intellectual should be. Number one, he strives for the truth and while can have intellectual blind spots, isn't afraid of calling them out. We had him has a guest speaker for an internal presentation at Google and of course we had some hyper-rational libertarian eastern block swe kid who was going to take him down and Noam was super respectful…

ISTR he was there on a book tour? Ready to talk politics. Got a bunch of linguistics questions.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#289
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that’s only true if you uncritically accept everything either side says and reject the other side. That’s low IQ, don’t do that.

[flagged]

The reason you can’t tell is one comment up in the thread.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#290
post #284
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that it's just another -ism, brain farted by some random french aristocrat in the eighteenhundreds-something if I remember correctly, and like all other -isms designed to control the population and steal the profit. All of them? The core ideas are awesome, but then the same could be said of Democracy; any idea force fed from the top is going to have the same kind of shit sandwich quality, the rainbow madness is…

Democracy and socialism aren't categories of a kind.

They are examples of ideas force fed from the top with the aim of controlling the population, which is sort of a category.

Applying mathematical reasoning to history isn't going to work very well, but knock yourself out.

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