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Canadian government banning Flipper Zero to combat auto theft

canada.ca

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Re: Canadian government banning Flipper Zero to combat auto theft

#281

Post by varenc »

user_7832 wrote: post #275
Thaxll wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those devices are already banned in most countries. You can't import / use devices that have jamming capabilities.

Would a capable SDR not require specific software to jam? I believe SDRs are still commonly available internationally.

Yes I believe this is true. A capable general purpose SDR can do almost all the things that purpose built illegal device can do. What's protecting society is that figuring out how to do this on an expensive SDR is non-trivial. The illegal purpose built GPS-jamming devices just make it dead simple.

My take is that what makes the Flipper so revolutionary/disruptive is that it puts all these previously difficult to pentest systems (NFC/RFID and sub-GHz radio mainly), behind a dead simple UI.

One example is intercepting a particular NFC card's password to read its protected sectors. This requires reading the card's UID, then presenting that UID to a reader hooked knows that UID's password, recording the password it sends, then using that password on the NFC card.

Prior to the Flipper this NFC password interception was possible but difficult. The Flipper make this sort of NFC MITM attack dead easy. It's literally just 4-5 clicks in the UI. I've cloned my own hotel key cards this way. (And it's impractical to secretly clone someone else's card this way since it requires tapping the Flipper on the same card twice)

Re: Canadian government banning Flipper Zero to combat auto theft

#282

Post by varenc »

Has anyone else described how a Flipper Zero can be used to aid in car theft? My understanding is since the 1990s car have used rolling codes for keyless entry, making it improbable for a Flipper to replay captured signals to unlock vehicles¹. But surely Canada has at least a modicum of evidence that thieves are using Flippers?

¹ Caveat: Some cars will accept rolling code signals with a counter only 1-3 values off. So a Flipper recorded unlock message could be replayed successfully if the owner hasn't used their fob again. Plus, replaying codes can desynchronize the car's system from the fob, leading to non-functional keyfobs. You can find online reports where Flipper users did this to themselves: https://www.reddit.com/r/flipperzero/comments/yxgn60/flipper...

edit: A deeper dive makes me think a the Flipper could help with some attacks. On some cars recording multiple successive unlocks and replaying them in order will make the car resynchronize its counter to the messages on your Flipper and the next one will unlock the car. It seems this attack relies on the first signal being jammed, but you could do that with two Flippers. One next to the car jamming, and a 2nd closer to the keyfob recording. Lots of info here: https://i.blackhat.com/USA-22/Thursday/US-22-Csikor-RollBack...

Re: Canadian government banning Flipper Zero to combat auto theft

#283

Post by WaxProlix »

evandale wrote: post #261
WaxProlix wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be claiming that a specific law invoked scary aesthetics specifically. I obviously can't speak to that - I'm saying that I've seen other rationales given for firearm restrictions. It'd be weird if I did know what you were talking about, right?

I am claiming that because the government marketed it as a "assault-style gun" ban. It's not an assault rifle ban it's literally an "ASSAULT-STYLE GUN" ban. There is no such thing as an "assault-style gun". It's not a thing people say and it's not a type of gun you can buy. The word was invented by the Liberals for the marketing campaign the Liberals used to ban guns that look scary. Again, you are saying "no they're…

Which specific law are you referring to? What was the content of the law? You need to be more clear. Repeating the same talking point isn't going to get anywhere, and I can only reference the law(s) I'm familiar with. In Washington at least they were pretty clear that it was a ban on all semi-automatic weapons, exempting handguns. I think California, New York, and Illinois were roughly the same.

Re: Canadian government banning Flipper Zero to combat auto theft

#284

Post by kevingadd »

hansvm wrote: post #126
kevingadd wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem with direct democracy as performed in the US is that it's trivial to manipulate with sufficiently large ad campaigns, because the average voter is not super well informed on most topics and is usually not motivated to dig deeply when i.e. a ride-sharing company spends a cool hundred million to get the legal outcome they want. This is not to say that the alternative is immune to these problems, but as…

Do you mean to tell me that the general public weren't in favor of being screwed over by ride sharing companies, so much so that a 7/8 majority would be required to overturn their "democratic " decision? I'm not sure that HN is an appropriate forum for strong, unsupported opinions like that.

That aside, I don't think a system where the spending disparity is in the territory of $200m vs $20m can be perceived as fair. I'd feel upset about it even if it turned out the way I personally wanted.

Re: Canadian government banning Flipper Zero to combat auto theft

#285

Post by anonzzzies »

refulgentis wrote: post #272
anonzzzies wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So xbox one was a small niche in Japan.

No, you're still missing it. 500K is a _lot_. Runaway success unless you're: A) Apple B) Samsung The 350K product I'm referring to defined a whole category for years and is universally well-known in tech. To be 100% clear, next time you see "500K sold", your decision tree is: Is it Apple? If yes, can be disagreeable whether it is well-known / successful. Is it Samsung? If yes, can be disagreeable about whether it is…

But I didn’t say 500k is not a lot or that it’s not successful; I say that it is a niche and it’s not immensely popular. It’s successful in its niche. Again, the comment I replied to used those terms and that’s just not true. I don’t care and wish them all the luck and selling 100m of these things, but if I have to think about how many zeros behind the comma to write the % of human owners, this is not a non niche or popular product. Knock on your neighbours door and ask what it is; they won’t know and they also would never ever buy one.

Re: Canadian government banning Flipper Zero to combat auto theft

#286

Post by defrost »

firebat45 wrote: post #264
defrost wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete utter nonsense - I'm an Australian gun owner, all legal. My neighbour here in the Australian wheatbelt enjoys ULR shooting at 5,000 yards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7owwTz7Z0OE Perhaps you might like to do some actual fact checking before being utterly wrong in public? W.Aus Firearms Act 1973 (current): https://www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/l... W.Aus Firearms Regulations 1974 (cur…

He only said there is no legal "right", not that gun ownership was completely illegal. The point being, reasonable countries view gun ownership as a privilege that can be lost, instead of a right that cannot.

It's a quibble - the base position here in common law is that the people of this state have a right to weapons .. much later the people of this state first agreed that the body they employ to debate common rules would be allowed to argue the regulation of firearms and delegate enforcement of any agreeed regulations to those tasked with the enforcement of policy - the Act grants that right to our employees, the politicians and the police.

After Regulations were agreed upon, these were codified.

The base right as that citizens of the state can have weapons, the agreed regulations (that can be overturned) are citizens with violent criminal records, domestic assault allegations, unqualified in handling, not willing|able to safely store cannot have weapons - these are our background conditions.

The US also has background checks for sale and possesion - they're just weak on enforcement.

The US is an oddity is they felt after the fact of constitution that they had to whack on an ammendment to spell out common law for firearms - but not for explosives, poisons, motor vehicles, etc.

Re: Canadian government banning Flipper Zero to combat auto theft

#287

Post by sheepscreek »

postpawl wrote: post #205
randomdata wrote: post #182

In theory, a representative democracy keeps checks and balances by the people still routinely communicating with each other as if it were a direct democracy and if the representatives are not acting in accordance with the direct findings, then it's off with their heads. But in practice that's a lot of work. The reality is that most people don't want to be involved and are happy to have some figurehead do the work for…

In reality, those with significant wealth and power end up shaping policy. This can lead to public disengagement, as many feel the system is not truly representing their interests.

The word we’re all looking for is “systemic”.

Disclaimer: The following might make you feel hopeless - I apologize for that in advance. I guess I’m a little in shock right now by the latest Sam Altman news about him looking to pour trillions into driving people out of jobs and possibly jeopardizing humanity. This is indeed like Oppenheimer all over again. I can see it now. Or maybe I need a fresh perspective. Comments are welcome. /Disclaimer

Yes people don’t want to get involved. Yes they are stretched thin. Corporate America puts such onerous demands on them that apathy becomes rampant.

It only furthers the agendas of powerful figureheads. Their self-actualization goals influence how the society is governed (top-tier in Maslov’s hierarchy).

Individual needs of the people - the worker bees - suffer as a direct consequence. There is no longer the “life” part in work-life (the weekends maybe, if you take out kid duty and household chores).

There’s no easy way out, and as much as I love everything being done in the name of scientific progress, I don’t like the cost we are paying for it as a society. We’re an unhappy bunch - this wasn’t the American dream, or any dream.

I think what’s increasingly missing is some culture - like non-commercial good music. People doing stuff because they were motivated by themselves - not commissioned art. Maybe what we need is a renaissance.

Why? To help people losen up a bit, so they can start to remember what living used to feel like. Then maybe, just maybe, people will also start to care more about each other. And dare I say, they might even have some time to volunteer in the service of others.

Also, I am not saying everyone fits the above narrative. There are people who do this today - they have dedicated their lives to service. But it’s not the norm, it’s not even 20% of the population. People like me are the norm. We wish well, we want what’s better. But wanting doesn’t automatically translate into actions - that requires motivation and dedication. Which comes from being inspired. And you can’t get inspired by anything when your life is about surviving each day.

Re: Canadian government banning Flipper Zero to combat auto theft

#288

Post by evandale »

WaxProlix wrote: post #283
evandale wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am claiming that because the government marketed it as a "assault-style gun" ban. It's not an assault rifle ban it's literally an "ASSAULT-STYLE GUN" ban. There is no such thing as an "assault-style gun". It's not a thing people say and it's not a type of gun you can buy. The word was invented by the Liberals for the marketing campaign the Liberals used to ban guns that look scary. Again, you are saying "no they're…

Which specific law are you referring to? What was the content of the law? You need to be more clear. Repeating the same talking point isn't going to get anywhere, and I can only reference the law(s) I'm familiar with. In Washington at least they were pretty clear that it was a ban on all semi-automatic weapons, exempting handguns. I think California, New York, and Illinois were roughly the same.

You aren't even Canadian?

Why are you commenting on things you know nothing about and arguing about this with Canadians who actually know what's going on up here? This isn't worth engaging anymore, go to google.com and search for "Canada assault style gun ban" to learn more.

Re: Canadian government banning Flipper Zero to combat auto theft

#290

Post by shdh »

thinkingkong wrote: post #23

Canada has totally lost its way. Housing is a massive issue. Healthcare is under constant attack. Immigration is used to prop up a failing economy. We don’t really make anything. Wages are lower than the US just because. There’s no negotiating power. The dollar is weak. We can’t extract most of the available resources because of the weather and environmental concerns. The praries are being sold off to foreign investo…

https://chanian.com/2010/08/01/tutorial-moving-from-canada-t...
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